Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experience)

[PFDarkside]

Even though it’s been out for 25 years I’ve never played one. I don’t know why it took this long, but I wonder if it would be the ultimate amp for me.

How does the Green channel compare to your Fenders? How does it sound with your Klon and Tube Screamer compared to the Fenders?

How does the Blue channel compare to your Marshalls? How does it take the Fuzz Face, Wah, Vibe and other gain pedals? Can it do a good Plexi tone or is it more compressed and modern?

I assume the Red channel is a nice hot rodded Marshall channel, how does it compare to the newer generation of hot rodded Marshalls from Friedman, Splawn, Metro, etc.?

Is it really a do it all amp or am I getting my hopes up and still really need a Fender style and a Marshall style amp?

 

[dystrust]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

I don't have the same experience as GJ, but I've played a few. I've never used one with pedals, so I can't answer those questions. It absolutely could be your do-it-all amp, provided that you like Bogners. I don't like them enough for it to be mine.

The green channel is one of the best if not the best clean channel on any high gain channel switching amp. It'll do great Fender sounds with plenty of sparkle available if you want it. The blue channel is like an idealized JCM800; it has slightly more gain than an 800 with the boost on and the EQ is more responsive. The red channel is pure Bogner high gain. It's actually my least favorite channel on the amp as I find it compressed and rather 'syrupy' feeling. It may be better with a Strat, or if you like that kind of thing. Plexi mode is cool and does what it says, though you can still tell it's a master volume amp. I'm referring to the 101B here, but the 20th Anniversary and Classic aren't hugely different. They're less compressed with a more 'woody' tone.

Overall it's a cool amp, but I don't like the red channel and prefer my Jubilees to the blue channel.

 

[Thundermtn]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

Tagged

I haven't personally played through this head, but the Uber cab is the only cab that I like more than my Recto cab.

I keep thinking I'll get a 20th Shiva one day but have never found one to try.

 

[B2D]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

I had a 101b model for a few years. I'll do my best to answer.

How does the Green channel compare to your Fenders? How does it sound with your Klon and Tube Screamer compared to the Fenders?

It was a REALLY good clean channel coming from a High gain channel switcher head. One of the best I've ever heard. But at the end of the day I still like the sound of a Fender Twin or Blues Deluxe better for clean. But the whole point of this head was not to haul multiple amps, so it'll do just fine.

I never used overdrive pedals with this amp because the built-in footswitchable boost sounded perfect for what I wanted. But it did take pedals very well as long as you dialed 'em in right.

How does the Blue channel compare to your Marshalls? How does it take the Fuzz Face, Wah, Vibe and other gain pedals? Can it do a good Plexi tone or is it more compressed and modern?

The Blue channel was easily my most favorite thing about the amp. I really wish Bogner made an amp that was a 50w blue channel from a 101b (no, the blue pedal is NOT the same) and gave it a clean mode. I suspect the upcoming Helios Eclipse might be close to that, though. The amp in that mode looooved to play with pedals. I liked the Plexi mode on it better than I like actual Plexis.

I assume the Red channel is a nice hot rodded Marshall channel, how does it compare to the newer generation of hot rodded Marshalls from Friedman, Splawn, Metro, etc.?

It starts with a modded Marshall thing but it had this weird upper midrange going on that kept me from really loving that amp and gelling with it over long term. It's a great rock amp, but I wanted an amp that would go into good metal tones, and that midrange thing kept that sound out of reach for me.

I liked my 101b while I had it, but I wouldn't do it again. I'd rather get a Friedman BE50 Deluxe. They feel right to me and sound right, all the tonal centers are right where they need to be with no outboard gear or futzing with speakers and stuff.

Is it really a do it all amp or am I getting my hopes up and still really need a Fender style and a Marshall style amp?

In the right hands, with the right guitars, it's very easily a do-it-all amp. But the Red channel may not be for everyone. If you can, try one first and really spend some time with it.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

I put the 101b in the same camp as the SLO 100. A great amp that I would have no problem owning if I had never discovered Dave Friedman.

 

[B2D]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

I put the 101b in the same camp as the SLO 100. A great amp that I would have no problem owning if I had never discovered Dave Friedman.

Yep. I've been totally sold on his amps ever since I played a 50w Marsha and the Naked head (which he doesn't make anymore but probably will if you ask nice) back in 2010 or so.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

I put the 101b in the same camp as the SLO 100. A great amp that I would have no problem owning if I had never discovered Dave Friedman.

Could not agree more. Having owned an EL34 Shiva and an XTC Classic, as well as having long term possession of a 101B and an Uberschall Twin Jet... they were some of the best amps I've ever had. But I've liked four of the five Friedmans that I've had more than any of those Bogners. My BE100 is my lifetime holy grail. And the Wildwood Taco that I have is like a small mirror image of it. Love them both. When I can send my BE100 into Dave to have him mod the clean channel to be more glassy like the clean channel on his new BE50, then I will be in tonal nirvana.

Regarding the Bogners... the XTC Classic's clean channel was better than the 101B's in my personal opinion. It had more Fender breaking glass going on. And the Shiva's clean channel was better yet. But the Friedman BE50 channel is by far the best clean channel I've ever heard on a high-gain channel switcher. Not even close to my ears.

The Blue and Red channels were great on the XTCs. They were Marshall flavored, but darker. Reinhold has his own thing going that's not really a Marshall. Whereas Dave Friedman is a highly-refined and smoothed take on Marshall. I'm not saying that Friedmans are "better" than Bogners... but like you, they scratch my itch so completely that the Bogner stuff just doesn't haunt me like it used to.

A small disclaimer though... I've never tried the Bogner Helios stuff. Guys seem to really like those and they seem to be much more Marshally. I've been close to buying one a few times. And regarding the XTC, I've never had a chance to plug into a 20th Anniversary XTC (or Shiva for that matter), but based on the tones in the XTC pedals (I've owned two or three of each)... I LOVE the 20th Anni settings on those pedals and would love to get my hands on a 20th Anni head.

And then there's the Atma. My local shop has had a couple of the Atmas (in plexi headshells) that are rockin little amps! They are like little XTCs IMO. But again, I like the tones in Dave Friedman's Mini Dirty Shirley and Pink Taco better.

I've had a lot of amps over the past 10-15 years... and none have come as close to curing my GAS as the Friedman stuff has. It just seems like there's nowhere to go from here. And that's a good problem to have!

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

I liked my 101b while I had it, but I wouldn't do it again. I'd rather get a Friedman BE50 Deluxe. They feel right to me and sound right, all the tonal centers are right where they need to be with no outboard gear or futzing with speakers and stuff.

[snip]


Agree with all you said. Especially regarding the BE50 Deluxe. It's the only amp that [slightly] tempts me to abandon my 2015 BE100. But even though the Deluxe has some features that the 100 doesn't have, the 100 still seems to have something going-on that the 50 does not have. Just a nuance of difference. Maybe a tighter gain or something. Something that I like. So if I can have Dave put the Deluxe clean on my 100, my lust for the 50 will go away. But still... that 50 is amazing and I wouldn't mind having one in the stable. At any rate... you won't get me to say that one Friedman is "better" than another. They're all amazing! But like any great amp builder... each one does something different, that speaks to different players.

I liked my Smallbox and Dirty Shirley, but the BE100 consistently makes me not miss them. Whereas the guy who I bought my 100 from still has his Shirley and Smallbox and prefers them. But now that he's got the 50 Deluxe, we'll see how it stacks up to those to amps over time. It's kind of like an XTC in that it takes a while to really explore all of the tonal options and get a full idea of exactly what you're dealing with. I was happy with my tones on my Shiva almost immediately, whereas the XTC took me 2-3 weeks of tweaking to get dialed-in to my preference. It almost had too many options for this "set it and forget it" kind of guy. And that's my impression of the extensive options on the Friedman BE50 based on my all-too-short time with it. My experience with the Tacos, Dirty Shirley, Smallbox 50, and BE100 that I've owned were that you find your tone pretty quick. And you may tweak things here and there, but you don't spend hours for days on end exploring all of the features like you do on the XTCs and the BE50.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

I've had a lot of amps over the past 10-15 years... and none have come as close to curing my GAS as the Friedman stuff has. It just seems like there's nowhere to go from here. And that's a good problem to have!

This is really it in a nutshell. I don’t even know what is new in the amp world anymore. I know this all seems “fanboish” but I have had my Friedman amps for a few years now and still love them.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

This is really it in a nutshell. I don’t even know what is new in the amp world anymore. I know this all seems “fanboish” but I have had my Friedman amps for a few years now and still love them.

Yup. I tend to be a fanboi of things that are awesome, and not necessarily what's "in" in the gear world. For instance, I'm as big of a fan of Tom Anderson guitars as you will find (I've had four of them). They are hands-down the best playing strat-style guitars I've ever played or owned. But most of the forum guys always want to talk about Suhr guitars, and never even mention the Anderson stuff. I had a Suhr for several weeks and didn't care for it. Yet my love affair with Anderson guitars has gone on for several years now. I'm wearing my Anderson t-shirt as I type this message on t-shirt Friday in fact!

That's how I feel about the Friedman stuff. There are still lot of us who love them, but that cutting-edge gear forum wave seems to have moved-on a bit to other amps. But I didn't move on. I've never played anything as satisfying as an Anderson into a Friedman. And I don't care if I was the last person on earth to love it... I'd still love it. And it's not because I'm some old curmudgeon who won't play anything newer than his old Fenders, Gibsons, and Marshalls. Cause I'll try anything and am open to adopting anything that is awesome, regardless of brand name or forum cred. But since I landed on Andersons and Friedmans, I just haven't played anything as well-crafted and that moves me as much. Though I gotta say that my new Schecter American Traditional is very Anderson-like and I do like and play it a lot. I also have to give props to my LP R0. It's the best LP I've ever owned or played. But with Gibson, you don't get the consistent excellence that you do with Anderson, Friedman, etc. I've never picked-up an Anderson and plugged it into a Friedman, where I didn't think that I was playing the best gear available to ANYONE.

In fact, my buddy who runs the local shop (and got me hooked on Anderson and Friedman) has had more Andersons and Friedmans than I've had and says that he's never been so satisfied with any gear in his life. I feel the same. And I told him that it used to be that I'd have an off day here and there and start to question my gear. "Maybe it wasn't all that I thought it was. Maybe that's what's wrong with my playing and/or tone today." Well... I've finally arrived at gear that is SO consistently awesome, that even on my off days I KNOW that it's ME that is the problem. There's never any question that the gear is up to the task and that I'm the weak/inconsistent link in the chain. That's quite a liberating feeling to have, after years of GASing. It's pretty amazing! Do I still lust after other gear here and there? Sure I do. But there is never that nagging feeling like "if I could just get that gear, I could get to the next level" that I've had for much of my 34 years of playing. Those day's are gone. There is no "next level" of guitars or amps than those brands. I had to lump the Anderson stuff into the Friedman subject because I'm equally passionate about them. In fact, if I was forced to get rid of my amps and just plug into my Helix, I could live with that. But if you made me get rid of my Anderson... I could never pick up another strat without feeling like I was settling, regardless of what amp I was plugging into.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

I put the 101b in the same camp as the SLO 100. A great amp that I would have no problem owning if I had never discovered Dave Friedman.

Are you running your Friedman into Scumbacks?

The BE50 Deluxe really looks like an unbelievable amp.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

The BE100 is going into a '76 Marshall 4x12 loaded with two G12M and two G12H.

The amp I actually use the most is my '72 Superlead that Dave restored back to stock (w/ an MV) for me. The '72 goes into a '71 Marshall 4x12 loaded with G12M reconed Scumback pre-Rolla kits)

The '72 gets the most use out of convenience really.

You know, now that I think about it. I don't know if I have a cab with pure Scumbacks in it at the moment. I have several quads, just don't remember if I still have them in a cab.

I have a space problem and some cabs are stored.

 

[speed2dirt]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

The Blue and Red channels were great on the XTCs. They were Marshall flavored, but darker. Reinhold has his own thing going that's not really a Marshall.

Agreed. Bogners are their own creation. Reinhold may use Marshall or Fender as a base, but takes it to a level that makes it his own. He creates things that are unique. I have & had multiple Bogners and think the guy is a tonal genius. My opinion on the amps I own/owned are below. To me, the perfect amp would be a combination of Shiva clean, Caveman rhythm, Ecstacy lead. :32:

The Ecstasy is all about versatility. If you like the base tone in the three channels, you can tweak them to find your perfect tone. Obviously, you have to like the starting point, otherwise all the switches in the world mean nothing. The clean channel is good and can coup several Fenders, the rhythm channel goes from light break-up to full-on crunch, and the lead channel is liquid, compressed sustain that makes any guitar sing. I've never heard high-gain as musical as the lead channel.

The Shiva is about simple, straightforward tone. The clean channel on the 6L6 version is without question the best clean I've heard. It's lush, full, airy, and sounds alive. The gain channel has a sag to it that's perfect for hard rock. It is more Marshall-based and can go from light break-up to full-on saturated sag. It has good sustain for leads, but a pedal helps push the amp. Great pedal platform also.

The Alchemist is much more in the Fender camp than any other Bogner I've played. It's very warm and smooth. I had the 1x12 combo with V30, but think using different cabs would have dramatically changed the amp. This is a 2-channel amp with multiple switches that can change the character of either channel. It's a very versatile amp if you like Fender, but just not as customizable as the Ecstasy. The gain channel was tighter than the Shiva.

The Caveman is the ultimate Bogner, in my opinion. It has Bogner's 6-position Schizo switch on each channel that revoices the channel. So rather than tweak each channel's base tone like the Ecstasy, you can dramatically change the tone & feel of each channel. So in essence, it has 6 amp voicings per channel to let you find the amp needed for the current situation. The onboard boost drives the amp more, but nowhere near the gain levels of the Ecstasy. The clean is amazing, but sacrifices a little purity for versatility in voicings. The gain channel crunchs with the best Marshalls. I'd put the gain channel on-par with the Ecstasy's blue channel for gain, but a more midrange, biting, aggressive tone.

*The Caveman was only released in limited numbers in the mid-'90s, but supposedly the Telos covers similar ground in a single channel amp with Schizo switch.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

And regarding the XTC, I've never had a chance to plug into a 20th Anniversary XTC (or Shiva for that matter), but based on the tones in the XTC pedals (I've owned two or three of each)... I LOVE the 20th Anni settings on those pedals and would love to get my hands on a 20th Anni head.

I've never played a Shiva 20th, but I have played the XTC. It wasn't exactly identical to the Classic, but it was really close. If you've owned an XTC Classic, I doubt that a 20th would be much different.

 

[Diego]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

I feel so unqualified in this thread.

I tried a Bogner Shiva once, and I've never played a Friedman.

:scratchch

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

I've used my 95 white chassis (loaded) 101B since 2001.
I think it was the 32nd one made.
I'm also familiar with other Bogners and Friedmans.
To me, most Friedmans have a crunchier JCM 800 base tone but do a lot more. Bogners have more of a plexi base tone, but can be molded in every direction.

The Ecstasy is the most versatile channel switching amp out there. 5 different players of different genres would all set it up differently because it's hard to get a bad sound out of any channel.

If I was married to one brutal highgain Marshall tone like Lynch, Cantrell, or Hetfield, I'd probably go for a Friedman.

My style is more varied like John 5, Gilmour, or Pete Thorn, so I spend more time on all the clean to midgain sounds, and reserve the red channel for a fat singing lead tone.

It takes pedals nicely, and has a great fully mixable FX loop. My loaded model has Class A and cab assigning, so I can even send the clean channel to an open back Jensen loaded cab, which really makes the cleans sound Fender-like.

 

[Silver]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

A bit of a side-track, but the best channel switcher I've played recently was the Carol-Ann Tucana 3.

https://www.carolannamps.com/tucana-3.html

 

[B2D]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

5 different players of different genres would all set it up differently because it's hard to get a bad sound out of any channel.

If I was married to one brutal highgain Marshall tone like Lynch, Cantrell, or Hetfield, I'd probably go for a Friedman.

My style is more varied like John 5, Gilmour, or Pete Thorn, so I spend more time on all the clean to midgain sounds, and reserve the red channel for a fat singing lead tone.

This is key info right here.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

Hey Speed, I think you and I both played Joe's Bogner at SDUG Day.

 

[speed2dirt]

Re: Gearjonser, tell me about your Bogner.... (and anyone else with Ecstasy experienc

Hey Speed, I think you and I both played Joe's Bogner at SDUG Day.

No, I wish I would have, but I just sat and watched the mayhem happen. Once Seymour took the floor, I was in awe and wasn't about to get up there. The liquid courage didn't kick in until later. If they ever have a UGD again, I'll have to bring the Caveman so others can check it out.

That said, I really want a white chassis Ecstasy for two features no longer offered: (1) cab switching as Joe mentioned and (2) attenuator loop.