Geeky Obscure Technical Question

[Strombasa]

Hello.

Does anyone know (I don't mean guess) what the resulting difference between the two-magnet ceramic design



and the one-magnet design?




There must be some reason why designers choose one way or another. The one-magnet is obviously quicker and cheaper to manufacture than the two-magnet design but I think that the cheapest Squier pickups are two-magnet, so there must be some advantage to justify adding the manufacturing cost here.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Geeky Obscure Technical Question

This is purely subjective, but after hearing both, albeit in different guitars, I think that the two magnet design has a better tone to it.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Geeky Obscure Technical Question

Each magnet can be charged to a specific polarity and you can have one assembly line install only North magnets while another line installs only South magnets. This speeds up production in both the charging process and assembly since workers know they're only getting it one way and don't have to stop to test anything or line up marks that indicate polarity or review a chart to double check anything. They roll by in an endless stream and you glue a magnet on it.

 

[Guitaraxz]

Re: Geeky Obscure Technical Question

They have different magnet fields. The two magnet design will have a field deeper in the body, the one magnet will have a smaller field. Maybe someone who makes pickups has an image to show you, it's hard to explain yet easy to see. Google "magnet field" or "guitar pickup magnet field".

The sahape of the magnet field changes the tone, humbuckers (most) use one magnet but with long screws on one side to change the shape of the field. If you look at the two magnet design they have longer pole peices. P90s' use the two magnet design. The single coil pups I like use six magnets where each pole IS a magnet. Personally I dislike both pups you pictured, but that's just me.

EDIT; on single coils I have never liked ceramic magnets, I've always preffered Alnico's especially Alnico II or Seymours Five Two which has a mix of A2 and A5.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Geeky Obscure Technical Question

A buddy of mine has an Aria II Pro. It came with three single coils with brass colored hex screws through the bobbin over two magnets which I assume are ceramic. They are the sweetest, tightest single coils I' be ever heard.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Geeky Obscure Technical Question

They have different magnet fields. The two magnet design will have a field deeper in the body, the one magnet will have a smaller field. Maybe someone who makes pickups has an image to show you, it's hard to explain yet easy to see. Google "magnet field" or "guitar pickup magnet field".

The sahape of the magnet field changes the tone, humbuckers (most) use one magnet but with long screws on one side to change the shape of the field. If you look at the two magnet design they have longer pole peices. P90s' use the two magnet design. The single coil pups I like use six magnets where each pole IS a magnet. Personally I dislike both pups you pictured, but that's just me.

EDIT; on single coils I have never liked ceramic magnets, I've always preffered Alnico's especially Alnico II or Seymours Five Two which has a mix of A2 and A5.

The one pickup has longer pole pieces so the magnets will affect them.

I've seen magnetic field diagrams, so I know how they look and operate.

While the magnet's fields will be in the body, they cannot do anything without the copper coils, so they're not picking up any body resonance, if that's the suggestion.

The metal pole pieces are passing the magnetic field up to the strings and through the coils, where all the action takes place.

I'm wondering now what magnets they are. Would a double-dose of A2 make an A4?

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Geeky Obscure Technical Question

I'm wondering now what magnets they are. Would a double-dose of A2 make an A4?

No no no no,

the difference between a2 and a4 is in their molecular make up not 2 plus 2 makes 4...

Those mags are guaranteed to be ceramic, Alnicos wont hold charge very well in the size and shape (this was a large reason why ceramics replaces alnicos in industrial use) and the direction they are charged in is wrong for an alnico the field is actually orientated 90 degrees away from what a alnico for a humbucker is charged with.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Geeky Obscure Technical Question

To the OP... No I dont think anyone here outside of Falbo could give you an insight into what the engineer was thinking when he designed those. I can tell you how those designs work but i dont know about manufacturing costs or choices or what advantage an engineer was imagining. Though I would not at all bet that the 2 magnet design is anymore expensive or cheap to manufacture. Ceramic magnets particularly if you are buying them 10,000 at a time are very cheap. Unless you can find an industry insider who helped with the acquisition of those pickups I doubt you will get anything more than a bunch of guesses from the peanut gallery.

 

[Strombasa]

Re: Geeky Obscure Technical Question

To the OP... No I dont think anyone here outside of Falbo could give you an insight into what the engineer was thinking when he designed those. I can tell you how those designs work but i dont know about manufacturing costs or choices or what advantage an engineer was imagining. Though I would not at all bet that the 2 magnet design is anymore expensive or cheap to manufacture. Ceramic magnets particularly if you are buying them 10,000 at a time are very cheap. Unless you can find an industry insider who helped with the acquisition of those pickups I doubt you will get anything more than a bunch of guesses from the peanut gallery.

I'll say.

But I guarantee that two magnets cost more than one magnet, even if they're half the size. Two glue beads cost more than one glue bead. Poles that are 3/16" longer cost more than poles that aren't. And a hundredth of a penny is significant money to the people who do this kind of work.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Geeky Obscure Technical Question

I'll say.

But I guarantee that two magnets cost more than one magnet, even if they're half the size. Two glue beads cost more than one glue bead. Poles that are 3/16" longer cost more than poles that aren't. And a hundredth of a penny is significant money to the people who do this kind of work.

Without someone inside the company to tell you though its all supposition, 2 half size magnets may very well cost less than 1 larger one. Also without knowing all the other materials in the pickups maybe the cost of the 2 mag one is less. Maybe the wire is a lower grade, maybe the plastics are lower grade. Maybe the vendor of those parts gives them a better bulk discount.

 

[freefrog]

Re: Geeky Obscure Technical Question

I'm not Frank Falbo but according to the measurements that I've done and IF the coil remains the same...

Two magnets > longer pole pieces > more metallic mass > more inductance > more mids.

One mag > shorter pole pieces > less metallic mass > less inductance > brighter and thinner tone.


BTW, it doesn"t make false what has been said about magnetic fields above. "inductance" is just another parm, but it"s an important one when it comes to define the voicing of a PU.