General magnet descriptions

MikeM

MikeM

New member
Hey folks

I saw this on Throbak's site.

General Alnico properties.:

A2 long / Scooped mids, chimey highs, warm sweet tones, loose feel.
A2 short / Scooped mids, spankier tone than long A2.
A3 long / Very weak, nice clarity for use in P-90's but very low output for P.A.F.'s.
A4 long / Balanced mids, treble and low end, drier toned than A2.
A5 long oriented / mid dominant, focused tone, jazzy cleans.
A5 short oriented / mid dominant tone, fatter toned than long oriented A5.
A5 long unoriented (Illinois) / Great low end clarity with good mids.
A5 long unoriented )(Indiana) / Less low end clarity more treble snarl, good mids.


I've I've never thought of A2 as scooped and A5 as middy. Am I crazy?
 
Re: General magnet descriptions

I strongly disagree with this list especially about A2 being scooped and chimey and A5 being mid dominant.
 
Re: General magnet descriptions

Whew. Thanks. Seriously was questioning my reality for a minute there. Googled to make sure my memory isn't fading.

Really strange, cause I usually hold Jon in the highest regard when it comes to tone
 
Re: General magnet descriptions

Magnets are only part of the equation the winds and wire gauge also come into play as well as screws and materials.
 
Re: General magnet descriptions

MikeM said:
Hey folks

I saw this on Throbak's site.

General Alnico properties.:

A2 long / Scooped mids, chimey highs, warm sweet tones, loose feel.
A2 short / Scooped mids, spankier tone than long A2.
A3 long / Very weak, nice clarity for use in P-90's but very low output for P.A.F.'s.
A4 long / Balanced mids, treble and low end, drier toned than A2.
A5 long oriented / mid dominant, focused tone, jazzy cleans.
A5 short oriented / mid dominant tone, fatter toned than long oriented A5.
A5 long unoriented (Illinois) / Great low end clarity with good mids.
A5 long unoriented )(Indiana) / Less low end clarity more treble snarl, good mids.


I've I've never thought of A2 as scooped and A5 as middy. Am I crazy?
Click to expand...

He's referring at his custom-made for him magnets, which formulae are different from the officially recognised as such grades.

Illinois and Indiana are the two location from magnets of the same grade but different formula come from.

HTH,
 
Re: General magnet descriptions

When I think A2 pickups, the LAST thought on my mind is scooped mids.
A5 and ceramics are the most mid-scooped magnets IMO all other things being equal.

That's a weird list.
 
Re: General magnet descriptions

Diego said:
A5 and ceramics are the most mid-scooped magnets IMO
Click to expand...

Diego, A5s ARE scooped. Some even VERY MUCH so.

Ceramics, OTOH, even though having this sharp, metallic quality ring in the highs and tight, ballsy lows in spades, they do have enough mids to not being considered "scooped", at least in my book, that is! ;)

AddictionFX sells UnOriented Ceramic bars, which sound like A5s WITHOUT the scoop. A dream neck magnet for shredders, if you ask me.

HTH,
 
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Re: General magnet descriptions

On this note, can anyone shed some light on A2 vs UOA5? Popped an A8 in a pup of mine, it's nice, but it's too much, too forward. A5 was too scooped, but still tight enough. I don't have any A4s lying around, and A2 is a bit middy and way too soft attack wise. I'm not sure if UOA5 has a soft attack like A2s or not, and I'm hesitant to remove my humbucker cover to test it :P
 
Re: General magnet descriptions

UOA5 is a little less scooped in the mids than ordinary A5, and with softer highs (but plenty of them). Think of it as a meatier bite, from a wolf rather than a rat. (Not that I'd want either to bite me!)

The list is pretty much bogus, at least as far as A2 and A5 are concerned. A2 is very full and fat in the mids, an oval shape, whereas A5 is unpleasantly lean in the mids, an hourglass shape.

Hmm, Illinois and Indiana UOA5? I might have to make a pilgrimage to the magnet factory in Clare to see if I can get them to make a Michigan UOA5. ;)
 
Re: General magnet descriptions

For the record, the cleanest/crispiest HB's I've EVER owned are a pair of boutique PAF replicas with A2 mags. They are not at all "full and fat in the mids", they have nothing in common with the Duncan SH55's, APH or PG that I had previously mounted in my guitars.

In the PAF replica of another boutique brand, I've been surprised to find a mag with the magnetism of an A2 (according to the pro gaussmeter used). The inductance of the PU was also higher with the original mag than with an A5 mag so it was surely an A2... while the tone suggested an A5.

My "Seymourized" SH59's made in 1978 include A5's (checked as almost fully charged with the pro gaussmeter) and sound warmer / more middy than the two examples above. They have also less chime than a third model of boutique PAF replicas, whose A2 sounds different compared to the two other A2 models mentioned above.

Lesson that I've found in these destabilizing findings:

-differences between mags depend on the brand considered (brand of pickups / brand of mags);
-coils appear to make enough difference to almost "reverse" the supposed tone of a magnet.

FWIW.
 
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Re: General magnet descriptions

Thanks for that input Freefrog.

I'm getting terribly tired of folks saying that magnets are only one facet of a pickup. Most people know this already. Magnets are a relatively easy variable to tweak while keeping the remaining factors constant. Knowing how pickups sound already, one can tweak a pickup to their liking by just changing the magnet(s). This is FAR easier than a rewinding a coil, or fiddling with polepieces, baseplates, keeper bars, etc.

So as much as I appreciate your input Freefrog, because you're comparing apples with pears here, it's really not relevant. For all we know it might have been 3k of awg41 wound with a very low TPL. In this thread, we need to concentrate on differences when changing magnets, not differences between pickups.
 
Re: General magnet descriptions

So as much as I appreciate your input Freefrog, because you're comparing apples with pears here, it's really not relevant.
Click to expand...

1) All of the PU's named above are PAF replicas wound with vintage correct PE 42 AWG. Nor their DCR nor their inductances are far from each others. Their (measured) resonant peaks have the same kind of Q factor and suggest close TPL's.

2) IME, differences when changing magnets vary according to the coils (and magnetic parts) but also to the brand of magnet, and not on the single basis of the supposed alnico recipe - I've measured an inductance of 4.6H then of 4.4H on the SAME pickup with two alnico 2 mags of the same size and different brands (vs 4.2H with an A5 mag, as expected).

3) Therefore, I wasn't saying that magnets are only a facet of a pickup: I was suggesting that names like "alnico2" cover a reality whose facets defy generalizations. Hence the difference between what Gundry says and what other folks explain elsewhere on the Net.

FWIW.
 
Re: General magnet descriptions

Ahhh, gotta eat my words here. Thanks for the additional info, means quite a bit right there!!!
 
Re: General magnet descriptions

freefrog said:
For the record, the cleanest/crispiest HB's I've EVER owned are a pair of boutique PAF replicas with A2 mags. They are not at all "full and fat in the mids", they have nothing in common with the Duncan SH55's, APH or PG that I had previously mounted in my guitars.

In the PAF replica of another boutique brand, I've been surprised to find a mag with the magnetism of an A2 (according to the pro gaussmeter used). The inductance of the PU was also higher with the original mag than with an A5 mag so it was surely an A2... while the tone suggested an A5.

My "Seymourized" SH59's made in 1978 include A5's (checked as almost fully charged with the pro gaussmeter) and sound warmer / more middy than the two examples above. They have also less chime than a third model of boutique PAF replicas, whose A2 sounds different compared to the two other A2 models mentioned above.

Lesson that I've found in these destabilizing findings:

-differences between mags depend on the brand considered (brand of pickups / brand of mags);
-coils appear to make enough difference to almost "reverse" the supposed tone of a magnet.

FWIW.
Click to expand...

These are excellent points, and I agree with them. However, you're comparing different pickups in different guitars, so you don't really have valid comparisons: you have too many things varying to isolate a single factor (the magnets). As you point out, the magnet is just one part in the total sound; how can you make a valid conclusion about the magnet is you don't control for the other factors? Just because A2 sounds bright in a given pickup doesn't mean that A5 won't sound brighter. Anyway, try swapping different magnets into the same pickups in the same guitar at the same distance from the strings, and your argument will be much stronger.
 
Re: General magnet descriptions

MikeM said:
I'm getting terribly tired of folks saying that magnets are only one facet of a pickup. Most people know this already. Magnets are a relatively easy variable to tweak while keeping the remaining factors constant. Knowing how pickups sound already, one can tweak a pickup to their liking by just changing the magnet(s). This is FAR easier than a rewinding a coil, or fiddling with polepieces, baseplates, keeper bars, etc.
Click to expand...
Good points. Most of us just kinda assume (and wrongly so) this is known to the reader... after a couple of dozen magnet swaps, you kinda lose perspective. I'll be more explicit from now on.
 
Re: General magnet descriptions

jafo said:
These are excellent points, and I agree with them. However, you're comparing different pickups in different guitars, so you don't really have valid comparisons: you have too many things varying to isolate a single factor (the magnets). As you point out, the magnet is just one part in the total sound; how can you make a valid conclusion about the magnet is you don't control for the other factors? Just because A2 sounds bright in a given pickup doesn't mean that A5 won't sound brighter. Anyway, try swapping different magnets into the same pickups in the same guitar at the same distance from the strings, and your argument will be much stronger.
Click to expand...

I lack of time so I'll post a relatively short answer:

I was trying to share and not to argue so, I don't need nor want my "argument to be much stronger".

More precisely, I wasn't denying your previous post, that I find valid on its own right : simply was I saying that my experience had been destabilizing because it didn't match my initial expectations, based on the same principles than yours.

Incidentally, my second answer above implies that I have already swapped mags. If it wasn't the case, I wouldn't have answered. I have also done tests with various screw poles etc. So, I have a few ideas about the effects of a mag vs other factors. That being said to explain my statements and not to "compete" with other members. :-)

Regards,

freefrog

I EDIT this answer, having forgotten the main part of what I wanted to reply... my point was to say that all A2's, A5's etc. are not created equal: their composition appears to vary, their BH curves too, and so on.
 
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