Getting The Most Out Of A SH-2 / SH-12 Modded JP Style Combo

RoccoCroce

New member
Hello folks,
Been a while since I've posted on here and last time there were some fantastic techs who were nice enough to help me out with an issue I was having with my guitars output.
Unfortunately, the issue persisted as I had exhausted my resources at the time.
At this point in time, the tone wipers no longer vary anything and the volume pot has a spongy 0 to "-.5" feeling to it and pops from 0 to full bleed.
I've also noticed that pushing on the solder ears of the volume pot that my PUP frequencies would match their nominal rating. For instance, my SH-12 would finally hit its 10kOhm mark instead of the strange 9.something... Likewise for the SH-2. Both felt like they had lost almost EXACTLY 10% of their power.
( Sub question- Is it possible for the pickups and adjustable screws to be adjusted too close to the string? Strings don't vibe on them at highest fret but they're maxed out as close as is possible without faulting on the strings while playing... )
It is now over 3 years later and I will be pulling everything apart, desoldering and running my DVOM across all traces that can be measured. I need to rule out any problems with my pickups (and selector switch / input jack ). I'll be wiring them directly to the input jack and then directly to the instrument cable.
With that in mind, I'll be purchasing new electronics. Seems Like DiMarzio is the way to go for the push-pull pots. I was digging the idea of the push-push pots but it seems what they gain in functionality they lack triple in longevity.
I don't want to seem to cavalier in my reach but here's my setup and here's what I'm trying to accomplish..

SH-2 Neck, SH-12 Bridge, 3 way toggle (Economy toggle... Please recommend replacement as I've been told this is a tone leech) 3 Push/Pull 500k DPDT ( Questions about this below ).
Someone recommend a decent cap, please. I'm not convinced of the near hundred-dollar oil and paper jobs either. Wont an orange drop do well?


Per the pots.. Starting to think it would be more fruitful to make use of two volume controls and a single tone control. " V-V-T "
Is it worth is to use a LOG pot for the volume? I have noticed that there is a bit to be desired with my volume setup as of late. Kind of feels like the first movement of travel from full bleed to loud isn't as responsive as full volume to half bleed... Just curious who actually uses the audio pots and who really seems to think it matters THAT much. Rather than the nonlinear wipe, what's more important to me is the very low volume playing remains manageable. I think the LOG pots win there. You know what I mean...Finding that low sweet spot isn't easy with the linear pots ( in my experience ). Could be in my head or could be my amps...

The actual wiring goals I would like to achieve would be
Neck Volume Pull ( HH in series for beefy output ), Bridge Volume Pull ( HH phasing reversed for both ), Tone Pull ( Coil Split for both -not sure if possible- ).
(If there is a more logistically convenient order for these, please let me know, especially if you might be using this set-up)
This is similar to the JP wiring but with one less switch being used for a coil split.

The questions here are mainly...
A) Is this possible?
and if so
B) Will there be a significant ( or any ) loss of tone or pickup value through all these components?
C) Has anyone else done this?

I'll be attempting to draw up a diagram soon.

Any suggestions and information will be appreciated and considered. I'll be available to post all measurements and specifications.

Carlo Robelli 24 Fret HH VTT Single cavity electronics (no conductive shielding) with bottom mount jack.

SH-2 Jazz Model Four Con. ( In NECK )
Neck: 7.72 k
Neck: 8 KHz Alnico V Bar 5 / 3 / 9


SH-12 George Lynch Screamin' Demon Four Con. ( In BRIDGE)
Bridge: 10 k
Bridge: 7 KHz Alnico V Bar 5 / 4 / 9

( I will post up MY results ASAP as I disassemble and test, please bear with me)

Thank you all in advance,
Rocco
 
Re: Getting The Most Out Of A SH-2 / SH-12 Modded JP Style Combo

i use orange drops and they work just fine. i see and hear no reason to spend a lot on a cap

as far as log vs linear taper, thats all preference. i usually prefer linear taper pots.

both pups in series can be done, splitting both pups with one switch can be done. switching phase on both would require a different switch and there is no real point to doing that. usually you would switch the phase on just one pup. when played by itself the tone will be the same, when played with both pups on they will be out of phase.

v, v, t is a better configuration especially if you are going to use a phase switch. rolling the volume back on one pup a little has a significant effect on the tone and makes the out of phase setting much more useful imo.

as far as "loss of tone" the tone will change with everything you put in. a pup straight to the jack will sound different than with a single 500k volume control. adding a tone control colors things too even on 10. that doesnt mean its bad at all, i prefer my humbucker loaded guitars with 500k volume and tone controls. straight to the jack they are noticeably brighter and i dont like it as much.

i dont know what "pickup value" is
 
Re: Getting The Most Out Of A SH-2 / SH-12 Modded JP Style Combo

i use orange drops and they work just fine. i see and hear no reason to spend a lot on a cap
These are what I was planning on using. I'm not convinced, otherwise.

as far as log vs linear taper, thats all preference. i usually prefer linear taper pots.
I've been using linear pots for volume in a few set-ups and the differences have been negigible. I think my issues now lie solely on my inconsistent electronics.

both pups in series can be done, splitting both pups with one switch can be done. switching phase on both would require a different switch and there is no real point to doing that. usually you would switch the phase on just one pup. when played by itself the tone will be the same, when played with both pups on they will be out of phase.
I am fimiliar with the wiring goals i'm trying to achieve although I have never used a phase reversal on personal gear. I'm going to have to familiarize myself with how and why it works a little more. I've played through setups that utilize this feature and I thought it would be cool to have. Coil splits are always a must for me and the series-paralell is something I wanna add to this rig for a fuller option.

v, v, t is a better configuration especially if you are going to use a phase switch. rolling the volume back on one pup a little has a significant effect on the tone and makes the out of phase setting much more useful imo.
You're absolutely right. When I was trying out the phase switching before it was on a guitar with two volumes and two tone controls. I noticed there was a interesting blend when using both pups and manipulating the volume controls independently.


as far as "loss of tone" the tone will change with everything you put in. a pup straight to the jack will sound different than with a single 500k volume control. adding a tone control colors things too even on 10. that doesnt mean its bad at all, i prefer my humbucker loaded guitars with 500k volume and tone controls. straight to the jack they are noticeably brighter and i dont like it as much.

i dont know what "pickup value" is

As far as losing tone and a value measurement of the pickup goes, I'm trying to establish a standard of what to expect. Just measuring the total output impedance isn't a direct relative indicator wiring device maladies. For instance, my back panel is opened up and I'm using a meter to establish changes in tZ through the output and while the value stays at a nominal reading, the sound changes.
Is there a BETTER measurement to take, like voltage while playing? If so, what's acceptable. Unfortunately, I don't have access to a scope. -_-

Having said that, I really think the latter will all be solved after replacing electronics.
This is most of my questions answered and thank you very much.

What's remaining that's important is should I just replace the 3 way switch ( 3 solder lugs) with one of these ON-ON-ON ( I think it has 12 solder lugs but they're better quality )?
I dont know what other people are using. Its a shallow cavity so an SG style switch wont fit and a LP style is too obtrusive.

Thanks
 
Re: Getting The Most Out Of A SH-2 / SH-12 Modded JP Style Combo

Also, the other question I had about pickup height. Is it possible that having them too high or backing the adjustment screws out too far will diminish pickup efficacy?
 
Re: Getting The Most Out Of A SH-2 / SH-12 Modded JP Style Combo

You know what would really help here? A photograph of the guitar in question and of the wiring within the control cavity.
 
Re: Getting The Most Out Of A SH-2 / SH-12 Modded JP Style Combo

You know what would really help here? A photograph of the guitar in question and of the wiring within the control cavity.
Ok gimmie a minute.

NVM.. I've already got it a bit apart. I can get it back together bit theres gonna be a lot of slack. The slack is deliberate because I'm going to be templating this and wiring it all new.

I'll get it back in and take pics now.
 
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Re: Getting The Most Out Of A SH-2 / SH-12 Modded JP Style Combo







I soldered it back together for the purposes of this post. This is the old configuration. 2 tones w/ P/P for individual coil split. Neck split is of the adjustable coil.
 
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Re: Getting The Most Out Of A SH-2 / SH-12 Modded JP Style Combo

Thank you for the pics.

Obvious first move, replace the dogbreath selector switch with something of professional quality.
 
Re: Getting The Most Out Of A SH-2 / SH-12 Modded JP Style Combo

Thank you for the pics.

Obvious first move, replace the dogbreath selector switch with something of professional quality.

Yes yes that's the plan. I left everything as is to show what was going on. I will be wiring direct and taking measurements there.
are the 3x4, 12-pole ON-ON-ON switches better?
This is the most shallow switch I could get ahold of and it's about 1/4 from the backplate. Unfortunately, the original did take a dumpski but for lack of a better switch with the correct size, I had to replace it with the same kind so it would fit. An SG style and LP style were both tried.
 
Re: Getting The Most Out Of A SH-2 / SH-12 Modded JP Style Combo

SH-12 (Open Bare) = 10.08
SH-12 (Green & Bare connected Paralell) = 9.96
SH-12 (Open Bare) + Output Jack to T/S Cable = 10.12
SH-12 (Green & Bare connected Paralell) + Output Jack to T/S Cable =10.12
 
Re: Getting The Most Out Of A SH-2 / SH-12 Modded JP Style Combo

are the 3x4, 12-pole ON-ON-ON switches better?

Yeah but ...

The typical 4P3T on/on/on switch is fastened by a hex nut on a threaded barrel. This may not be long enough to pass through the top of your guitar and for the dress washer and hex nut to go on fully.

There exists a right-angled version of the classic Switchcraft three-way sprung leaf toggle selector switch. This angle version fits inside SGs and Firebirds. Hence, it should fit in the control cavity of your guitar.
 
Re: Getting The Most Out Of A SH-2 / SH-12 Modded JP Style Combo

I have about 1/2" protrusion to face of guitar. Threaded barrel has two deco nuts on it to cover threads. Plenty of room. There just isn't a ton of real estate inside the cavity. I have tried an sg switch and a couple others in there but...maybe you can find the style on here..
http://www.allparts.com/Switches_c_496-2-3.html
..and no, I will not be buying from allparts.
 
Re: Getting The Most Out Of A SH-2 / SH-12 Modded JP Style Combo

Also, I'm going to do a voltage drop test and try shunting the switch at some pumped up voltage.
I'll find out if it's responsible for some serious drop.
So far the first big culprit is the volume. Which was an allparts 500k log pot.
 
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