Getting The Right Guitar Action

[OsvyRock]

Hi everyone! Just wanted to thank everyone for helping me out on my pickup quest on the Pickup Forum.
I'm writing once again, because I want input on getting the ''right action'' for my Flying V.
It has a new TonePros bridge on it, and set for .11 strings. The thing is... I still ain't getting easy playing from it. I hit the strings hard, so with lower action on the bass part, I may get buzzy strings. I also feel the e, b, g strings to be very light. I imagine the action is something like this right now = \.

I know action is subjective, but I want to know if there can be a ''standard'' way to getting it correctly.
I want to play complete (AC/DC, Def Leppard like) chords, solo with ease, have good sustain, and that it remains strongs for strong rhythms. I will be singing + playing the guitar at the same time*

I'll appreciate all the help you can provide.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

Playing style has a lot to do with string gauge. I play blues and do a lot of serious string bending, and use 9's. I'd be unable to play solos with 11's in std tuning. Are you sure you want to go that thick? The thicker the string, the greater the tension. You're making it harder than it has to be. Some well-known guitarists use 8's and 9's and have some heavy tones.

If you're using 11's for the warmer/fuller tones, those can be achieved thru other means, like PU's, magnets, and pots. Save your fingers.

So, if you bend a lot, you need a higher action to get a good grip on the strings. If you have fret buzz: is the neck straight or has a little relief? If it is, and you still have buzz, than you need to raise the strings so they can resonate properly and give better tone. If you're using 11's, you're probably not bending much.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

Many of us can bend (deep and often) and play solos just fine using .11s in standard tuning. It is a heavier gauge though, so will feel differently and demand a different touch. Regardless of the string gauge you use, you should be able to get low action with minimal buzzing with a proper setup (nut filed correctly, frets leveled nicely, bridge and neck adjusted properly).

Be aware that there is a tradeoff to be had between being able to hit the strings really really hard without buzzing and being able to play with a light touch really really easily.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

Many of us can bend (deep and often) and play solos just fine using .11s in standard tuning.

Not like you can with lighter gauges. There's a lot of bending styles (depth, duration, sustain, vibrato), and I'm pretty sure how you bend with 11's isn't like how I can bend with 9's.

 

[Chris of Arabia]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

Neck relief --> nut slot depth --> bridge height, in that order

just be aware though, you may do the neck relief and find that all of a sudden, all else is right and needs no further adjustment - seen that a good few times

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

One tip I would give is to make all your judgements through your live rig at live volume. Sitting there nitpicking buzzes without your guitar plugged it is useless, and will result in unnecessarily high strings.

I too play hard with 11's (at the very least). If I set them up to avoid unplugged buzz, I wouldn't be able to play the guitar at all. If you hit hard, buzz is unavoidable, even at ridiculously high string heights. You have to learn to realize the difference between acceptable buzz due to playing technique and unacceptable buzz due to grossly incorrect setup.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

Try to keep your bridge level or close to it for consistent action string to string.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

Not like you can with lighter gauges. There's a lot of bending styles (depth, duration, sustain, vibrato), and I'm pretty sure how you bend with 11's isn't like how I can bend with 9's.

If they're good enough for Buddy Guy, they're good enough for me.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

11s on a short scale are about as tight as 10s on a stratocaster. Nothing extreme about that, so let's skip the whole "my strings are thicker than yours" nonsense before it gets unfriendly. :fing2:

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

You don't have to play big strings or hit it hard to play AC/DC, Def Leppard, or solos. On my strat, which I do play harder than my shred guitars, I do have the low e string a little higher, and have 11's tuned down half a step to make them easier to bend.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

Get a tech to set up the nut and level the frets, then you can have a wider range of adjustment.

If you're looking for a fat, full sound that doesn't compromise playability so much, I recommend 10-52s instead of 11s. IME, the treble strings don't make as much difference as the bass strings.

Now action is about compromise. I don't know how hard you hit the strings, but the harder you hit it, the higher the action has to be. Leveled frets help mitigate this, but higher action is still necessary.
To find the sweet spot for you, you're going to need to experiment. That's where the nut setup ans the fret job come in.
For me, an action of 2.7mm and 2.2mm at the last fret with a relief set at 0.25mm (0.010") is the perfect compromise. For you, the number might be different.

 

[autologic]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

Wow, I think a big part of why I have so much trouble with buzz is because I nitpick at the buzz while playing acoustic. It never occurred to me that it won't effect the sound through the amp. I imagine it does kill your sustain though, right? I used to use really big strings too, at least 11s, until I read about Tony Iommi, and realized I could be heavy as hell with a smaller string...

 

[Securb]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

Wow, I think a big part of why I have so much trouble with buzz is because I nitpick at the buzz while playing acoustic. It never occurred to me that it won't effect the sound through the amp. I imagine it does kill your sustain though, right? I used to use really big strings too, at least 11s, until I read about Tony Iommi, and realized I could be heavy as hell with a smaller string...

I generally use 9s and have a tone "similar" to Tony's. With that in mind I have guitars with 10's and 11's that I use for different purposes. For my bluesy clean stuff I like the thicker strings. When I play blues it is very traditional and pure, no gain straight into an amp. For this purpose I use the thicker strings for more dynamics and sound. If you are playing with stomp boxes and gain you can get away with almost any set of strings. Just find something that is comfortable to you. You mentioned you e,b,g feels light with the 11s. I would not drop to 9s, try a set of 10s ...hell try every set of strings you can get your hands on until you find something YOU like.

 

[OsvyRock]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

Playing style has a lot to do with string gauge. I play blues and do a lot of serious string bending, and use 9's. I'd be unable to play solos with 11's in std tuning. Are you sure you want to go that thick? The thicker the string, the greater the tension. You're making it harder than it has to be. Some well-known guitarists use 8's and 9's and have some heavy tones.

If you're using 11's for the warmer/fuller tones, those can be achieved thru other means, like PU's, magnets, and pots. Save your fingers.

So, if you bend a lot, you need a higher action to get a good grip on the strings. If you have fret buzz: is the neck straight or has a little relief? If it is, and you still have buzz, than you need to raise the strings so they can resonate properly and give better tone. If you're using 11's, you're probably not bending much.

Many of us can bend (deep and often) and play solos just fine using .11s in standard tuning. It is a heavier gauge though, so will feel differently and demand a different touch. Regardless of the string gauge you use, you should be able to get low action with minimal buzzing with a proper setup (nut filed correctly, frets leveled nicely, bridge and neck adjusted properly).

Be aware that there is a tradeoff to be had between being able to hit the strings really really hard without buzzing and being able to play with a light touch really really easily.

Not like you can with lighter gauges. There's a lot of bending styles (depth, duration, sustain, vibrato), and I'm pretty sure how you bend with 11's isn't like how I can bend with 9's.

Neck relief --> nut slot depth --> bridge height, in that order

just be aware though, you may do the neck relief and find that all of a sudden, all else is right and needs no further adjustment - seen that a good few times

One tip I would give is to make all your judgements through your live rig at live volume. Sitting there nitpicking buzzes without your guitar plugged it is useless, and will result in unnecessarily high strings.

I too play hard with 11's (at the very least). If I set them up to avoid unplugged buzz, I wouldn't be able to play the guitar at all. If you hit hard, buzz is unavoidable, even at ridiculously high string heights. You have to learn to realize the difference between acceptable buzz due to playing technique and unacceptable buzz due to grossly incorrect setup.

Try to keep your bridge level or close to it for consistent action string to string.

If they're good enough for Buddy Guy, they're good enough for me.

11s on a short scale are about as tight as 10s on a stratocaster. Nothing extreme about that, so let's skip the whole "my strings are thicker than yours" nonsense before it gets unfriendly. :fing2:

You don't have to play big strings or hit it hard to play AC/DC, Def Leppard, or solos. On my strat, which I do play harder than my shred guitars, I do have the low e string a little higher, and have 11's tuned down half a step to make them easier to bend.

Get a tech to set up the nut and level the frets, then you can have a wider range of adjustment.

If you're looking for a fat, full sound that doesn't compromise playability so much, I recommend 10-52s instead of 11s. IME, the treble strings don't make as much difference as the bass strings.

Now action is about compromise. I don't know how hard you hit the strings, but the harder you hit it, the higher the action has to be. Leveled frets help mitigate this, but higher action is still necessary.
To find the sweet spot for you, you're going to need to experiment. That's where the nut setup ans the fret job come in.
For me, an action of 2.7mm and 2.2mm at the last fret with a relief set at 0.25mm (0.010") is the perfect compromise. For you, the number might be different.

Wow, I think a big part of why I have so much trouble with buzz is because I nitpick at the buzz while playing acoustic. It never occurred to me that it won't effect the sound through the amp. I imagine it does kill your sustain though, right? I used to use really big strings too, at least 11s, until I read about Tony Iommi, and realized I could be heavy as hell with a smaller string...

Greetings everyone! I want to thank everyone of you for your replies. I decided to go to .11 , after 4 years using .10 straights; I cannot longer play .10. It just feels so ''easy'', and my left & right hand playing needs more tension to ''hold me back''. I really like the feeling of .11 strings. I have them on my SG, and they're great strings. My Flying V feels like a different story. If you knew... the guitar was really badass setup, but due to the removing of the pickguard to ''treble bleed'' my pickups; perfect setup went.... So we're searching once again for the right action.

I actually feel the bass strings are a little bit too high. While the guitar may work for complete chords, it feels unbalanced. Bass strings too stiff at the moment. Things like the twelve-bar blues requiere some pressing, and my hand gets tired. Treble strings are lower than the bass strings. When you ''feel'' the bass strings and go to the treble strings, you feel like making a ''leap'' to somewhere below; making playing kind of sloppy.

I know this guitar can be setup perfectly, and precise. I just don't know how to do it. I have been thinking of lowering the bass a little bit, and getting trebles a little higher to ''balance'' string heights. I know there must be something uneven for precision; but I really feel I need to change it to perfect it better.

I don't want it extremely low, since I appreciate good sustain (Gary Moore & (GNR) Slash style); but not so high I'm fighting the guitar. What recommendation can you make?

Guitar looked like this when it was ''perfectly setup''. https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd...._=1417170957_91b111ba0ddcf7b70f1391cb7c6bd7aa I could have taken a better photo.

 

[EDX]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

first advice is get the guitar to a tech, ask for lowest action without fretbuzz, then, when the guitar is ready, sometimes they stop to hear when you say lowest action, se they just set that and forget about fretbuzz, anyway, once you had the guitar test it, if it's still too much fret buzz for you (if it can be heard through the amp then is too much) just start to raise the bridge a 1/4 turn at time, until you get the prooper acton for you (easy to play with low or none fret buzz) check the intonation, if it isn't right fix it, then enjoy

 

[Brian Griffin]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

Maybe you are physically weak. Start working out, or train your fingers with that gripper thing or some kind of gripping exercise.

I have always used .011s since as early as 2006 and have no problem speed-picking or bending, even in one of my guitars with a busted rod and upward bow neck. I tune down a half step though but only in order to prevent the neck from bowing downward (and also to make it easier jamming along with old GnR).

 

[kilphody]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

Twitch a rubber band and play. Just like yesterday.
It's all you, not the guitar.

PC

 

[greekdude]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

Not like you can with lighter gauges. There's a lot of bending styles (depth, duration, sustain, vibrato), and I'm pretty sure how you bend with 11's isn't like how I can bend with 9's.

11's major plus is that they make the player do those grimaces while bending hard, making the audience to believe that he really feels the music. I tried many times to like 11's for standard tuning , but reverted back to 9s in every single occasion. Shredding-wise, I think I guitar strung up with 11's is a wasted guitar. But that's just me.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Getting The Right Guitar Action

I play G&L Legacy strats with 9-42s and Gibson Pauls and 335s with 10-46.

Sometimes, one of the Gibsons will refuse to play by the rules. No matter what I do to the action, nut, and truss rod, 10s won't work. The solution on these guitars is a 9-46 set. Bingo...everything dropped into place. An outside the box solution that I never would have expected. Sometimes a guitar will work best with a raised or top-wrapped stop tail; sometimes it is a matter of changing the neck relief. You never really know what it might be. Some just have a sweet spot, and they're not happy outside those parameters.

One thing I can tell you that is a common problem on tuneomatics and ABR-1 bridges is that the saddles' radius does not match the radius of the fingerboard. They MUST be filed to get that "plays like buttah" action. You check with a radius gauge; these are available through Stew-Mac. It's CRITICAL.

And sometimes, I find that I get the best results by going back to the factory specs--strings, number height, bridge height, neck relief, etc. Especially with the Legacy's Dual Fulcrum Vibrato...if I follow the factory setup procedures, I'm really close, and just a slight adjustment is all it needs to be perfect.

One thing that EVERY guitarist needs is a copy of Dan Erlewine's book, "How To Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great". You might not do the work yourself, but even then it's a helpful guide.

Good luck.

Bill