Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

[dominus]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

Well, there's no secret to it. Typically, a TS kind of boost in front of the amp cuts away the flub and adds a bit of texture or bite.
That kind of setup might sound tighter and "juicier" than turning up the preamp gain. Sometimes a guitar straight into amp does the job just right, sometimes turning the gain past the sweet spot sounds sub-optimal. That's why boosts still come in handy with high gain amps.

Another thing I want to add to this topic is that pedals usually don't work in vacuum. There is a lot of tone shaping happening in a tube amp and its cab, so I don't really believe in "getting tones from a pedal". Well, unless it's a floor processor going straight into PA but I don't believe in that either.

There are no tubes in the videos I posted above. Those are pedals going into a solid state power amp.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

Okay but it's still going through a miked guitar cab, which does a lot of spectrum shaping, right?

 

[jpistolas]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

Going against my previous statement, I'll have to say my all time favorite thrash tone was Scott Ian's old rig. JCM 800 with a TC Electronics Line Booster. Go back and listen to Among The Living. IMHO it's THE thrash tone.

Still... there's just so many amps available now that do thrash to death metal with just a guitar and cable.

 

[dominus]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

Going against my previous statement, I'll have to say my all time favorite thrash tone was Scott Ian's old rig. JCM 800 with a TC Electronics Line Booster. Go back and listen to Among The Living. IMHO it's THE thrash tone.

I think this was Scott's best tone ever:

 

[dominus]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

Okay but it's still going through a miked guitar cab, which does a lot of spectrum shaping, right?

Absolutely. That's the part that a lot of people miss when they complain about amp modeling. The speaker cabinet modeling just wasn't adequate with what they tried.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

With so many modern high gain amps on the market I don't see the logic in piling pedals in front of an amp when Mesas, 5150's, Diezels etc. do it perfect right out of the box with no need for pedals.

That's sort of OT because if you read through the prior posts, this is not a thread about which OD to add in front of your amp's gain channel. This thread is about which pedal(s) to use to get ALL your distortion - the amp being on clean channel or only has clean, etc.

But speaking to your point, budget is a common reason to add the pedals in front of the amp. A pedal on average costs considerably less than graduating from say a Marshall DSL to a Diesel, just as an example.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

In short, that's because nowadays speaker cab modeling is always realized via impulse response convolution which is achieved by layering multiple short time delays of the original signal. As a comb filter, it's linear and completely unresponsive to dynamics, making it basically a fancy equalizer. A real speaker cab is nonlinear and dynamically responsive.

 

[GuitarGuy503]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

With so many modern high gain amps on the market I don't see the logic in piling pedals in front of an amp when Mesas, 5150's, Diezels etc. do it perfect right out of the box with no need for pedals.

Pedals are cheaper and more convenient. If I need a Mesa flavor and a Marshall flavor for a gig I can achieve both sounds without luging an extra amp around. Not to mention the more amps you have the more money you will be sinking into tubes and potential repairs as well. It's not very realistic IMO. I'm willing to bet that alot of people who own multiple amps probably have ones that go to waste and collect dust because they favor others. In that case whats the point?

 

[rashayritto]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

Honestly the only difference between my thrash and doom setups is I turn off the fuzz box and leave the tubescreamer pushing hard into the dirty channel. I dont think I've used JUST and amp's gain or JUST a pedal's gain for thrash, ever.
Edit: Should mention I don't add another boost for leads with that setup. I just kick on a short delay or reverb.

 

[SD fan]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

New ISP Theta Preamp does the deal. Tubes are great but even a good tube amp can use a pedal to tighten it up. I prefer the Theta for uber gain levels. From what I have gone through in years I have noticed tubes are less important on uber high gains outside the brainwash. Dimebag was always fonder of solid state high gains for the more tighter and quicker response. A lot of things work. Be aware the Theta is not just another distortion pedal. It is also an AC powered really high mA current. Takes some work to dial it in but man that puppy kills, massive low end and articulate. For me high gains without low end are just a fizz fest of scooped out tinny tone does not matter if it's a pedal or an amp. EQ is everything. Been my experience a great pedal can gain up more intensely than an amp. I prefer a cleaner amp with pedals.

 

[CountFeedback]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

many great Rock & Metal records made with an amp and a pedal.
I <3 the Rat
I believe before Metallica went all Boogie MK(II or III?) it was JMP MV / JCM800 with RAT & TS9.
be careful with pedals marketed for metal... live especially they can sound boxy or canned.

 

[jpistolas]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

I think this was Scott's best tone ever

I could be wrong but I think he was still using the 800/Booster setup during that SOD reunion. "He'll pour gas on your kids & throw 'em a match!" Would NOT want to be under Billy during a stage dive. Still have that on VHS somewhere.

Little OT, but I was just addressing the amp part in "pedal vs. an amp?" Just sayin' it's just as easy to get that sound, even on a budget with only an amp. Line 6 combos do it good and they're super cheap used.

If those guys had access to the amps available now they would have jumped on them and most have since. Well, except for Kerry King.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

Little OT.. Just sayin' it's just as easy to get that sound, even on a budget with only an amp. Line 6 combos do it good. ...

Yes, it is OT. This thread established in the beginning that recommendations being sought were for pedals to supply all the distortion, and by members who are actually doing that themselves or did it seriously at some point in the past.

Anyone wishing to discuss/debate use of pedals vs the amp's gain, please take it to another thread. Its not that its not an interesting topic, its just that it can make this thread go completely OT quick.

 

[everdrone]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

I love my proco ratII keeley modded for thrash and heavy gain

but it needs a noisegate

I use ISP gstring noisegate

for portability and versatility I would suggest making sure the noisegate is built into the pedal, I want to try these pedals for shred metal:

metal muff with noisegate: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ToneTattoo/

zvex http://www.musiciansfriend.com/ampl...-box-of-metal-distortion-guitar-effects-pedal

http://www.amptweaker.com/page/TightRock-Distortion-by-Amptweaker-50.aspx

 

[Charlie_Bcn]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

I bought a Boss Metal Zone in 1993, I think, and I'm still using it to create metal sounds through my marshall TSL, which has become a 4 channel!

It offers a great variety of sounds, and is amazing for classic and also modern metal tones.

And the key thing: you can find it used for a good price!

 

[SD fan]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

With so many modern high gain amps on the market I don't see the logic in piling pedals in front of an amp when Mesas, 5150's, Diezels etc. do it perfect right out of the box with no need for pedals.

Helps if mommy buys you a Deizel, anyone knows any amp is enhanced by backing off its gain level and using an overdrive to tighten it up and push it into better gain structure. True of any amp.
High gain pedals can be a hoot to play, easier and cheaper, one does not fry out their tubes or the lifetime of their expensive amp. Cooking chicken on that puppy on a daily basis is going to be a short lived premise before repair or retubing which can run into the hundreds plus proper bias adjust. Tube amps are not maintenance free. They might sound great and if you can drop $3000 on an uber head then bless your budget ability. You can get a Wampler Triple Wreck or the Theta Preamp pedal and burn it up with little wear and tear.

 

[everdrone]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

this metal muff has a built in noisegate:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ToneTattoo/

 

[dominus]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

this metal muff has a built in noisegate:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ToneTattoo/

and costs more than a used Metal Muff + ISP Decimator.

 

[dominus]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

It has 4 pedals in one going on...

Depending on the quality of the noise gate, delay, and chorus, it's probably still cheaper for separate pedals, especially if you don't need the others.

I can see how it would fit someone's pedal board, but if we're talking just about getting a certain tone out of a pedal (like it's an amp channel), there's better, cheaper options.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Getting ur thrash metal tones from a pedal vs. an amp? which pedal?

Just an update, and "success story" to share that was only possible with the great recommendations that many of you provided: I scored a used Metal Muff, and using it in combination with a BOSS Super Overdrive and BOSS Graphic Equalizer pedals that I already had lying around, I have definitely improved upon the distortion I was previously getting through my MXR Fullbore Metal pedal. The "presence" of the tone has shot up tremendously, and the character of it is much closer to the Metallica KEA tone that I've been chasing for a few years now. With a few tweaks of the knobs this same set-up lets me a get a tighter tone a la Pantera VDOP. Win-win. Thanks again guys!

At the same time, I'll probably check out some other recommended pedals in time as they just seem too cool not to, like the ISP Theta - haha. So thanks again, and keep the recommendations coming.