Gibson 300K Pots -- why?
- Thread starter AniML
- Start date
JeffB
Let it B
Re: Gibson 300K Pots -- why?
No clue, but I think it works well with THEIR pups...300K linear vol, and 500 Audio taper tone pot. Barring the BB1/2 set, 500K volumes just open up Gibson pups too much...man..talk about harsh.
mg:
It also works pretty well with certain other pups that are a little over the top in the highs. I think a SH5 sounds best with a 300K volume for example. Alot of folks like 250K pots on JBs (in a strat I concur).
I think a 250K TONE pot though is more problematic in a Gibson style instrument. It really darkened up my Dean ML and made the JB/59 very "flat" sounding. Unfortunately I did not realize I had a 250K tone in there until after I had them pulled out...With the original DiMarzio Schenkers the 250K tone worked great
No clue, but I think it works well with THEIR pups...300K linear vol, and 500 Audio taper tone pot. Barring the BB1/2 set, 500K volumes just open up Gibson pups too much...man..talk about harsh.
mg:It also works pretty well with certain other pups that are a little over the top in the highs. I think a SH5 sounds best with a 300K volume for example. Alot of folks like 250K pots on JBs (in a strat I concur).
I think a 250K TONE pot though is more problematic in a Gibson style instrument. It really darkened up my Dean ML and made the JB/59 very "flat" sounding. Unfortunately I did not realize I had a 250K tone in there until after I had them pulled out...With the original DiMarzio Schenkers the 250K tone worked great
Janglin_Jack
New member
Re: Gibson 300K Pots -- why?
I tried many pickups in my 1982 Gibson XR-1, they all sounded like mud. Someone from the Les Paul forum told me to check the pots and they all were 100K!!!! Changed out the pots and loved my PGates neck and CC Bridge combo!!
Jack
I tried many pickups in my 1982 Gibson XR-1, they all sounded like mud. Someone from the Les Paul forum told me to check the pots and they all were 100K!!!! Changed out the pots and loved my PGates neck and CC Bridge combo!!
Jack
PoorMan
MoneyForNothingologist
Re: Gibson 300K Pots -- why?
Lower value pots lower the resonant peak. Gibson used 300k volume and 100k tone pots in their guitars to get a fatter sound and compensate for bright pickups for a while (can't remember the exact time period)
I think newer LP Studios have 300k pots also...that's why some have a tendency to sound muddy. I can't fathom why Gibbo would do that considering the materials and construction of the guitar.
I often mix values to obtain a certain tone. It's a great way to tweak a guitar to get a brighter or warmer tone. Case in point, I have a VERY bright R7 that I just couldn't tame. I dropped a 250k volume pot in the bridge and now it's perfect.
Lower value pots lower the resonant peak. Gibson used 300k volume and 100k tone pots in their guitars to get a fatter sound and compensate for bright pickups for a while (can't remember the exact time period)
I think newer LP Studios have 300k pots also...that's why some have a tendency to sound muddy. I can't fathom why Gibbo would do that considering the materials and construction of the guitar.
I often mix values to obtain a certain tone. It's a great way to tweak a guitar to get a brighter or warmer tone. Case in point, I have a VERY bright R7 that I just couldn't tame. I dropped a 250k volume pot in the bridge and now it's perfect.
T
theodie
Guest
Re: Gibson 300K Pots -- why?
From my experience with an Explorer and the JB, you are probably spot on bro. Hmmm....I have some 300K gibby pots, some body and neck blanks, I may make a guitar with a JB in mind????
I have found that 300K pots work best with certain Gibson pickups. The 57 classic and plus do great with 300K's IMO. I dont like em with 500's though.
From my experience with an Explorer and the JB, you are probably spot on bro. Hmmm....I have some 300K gibby pots, some body and neck blanks, I may make a guitar with a JB in mind????
I have found that 300K pots work best with certain Gibson pickups. The 57 classic and plus do great with 300K's IMO. I dont like em with 500's though.
dystrust
Well-known member
Re: Gibson 300K Pots -- why?
Pickups will lose output over time as the strength of the magnet decreases. The DC resistance of the pickup shouldn't change because the amount of wire stays the same. Most types of resistors also do not change over time, so I doubt a pot would lose value. Capacitors are the items most likely to drift over time.
Pickups will lose output over time as the strength of the magnet decreases. The DC resistance of the pickup shouldn't change because the amount of wire stays the same. Most types of resistors also do not change over time, so I doubt a pot would lose value. Capacitors are the items most likely to drift over time.
Re: Gibson 300K Pots -- why?
Ditto.....well, almost. The JB sounds great in my Les Paul Custom once I changed the volumes back to 300K's. I only recently found out that this guitar came stock with 300K volumes and when I drank the cool aid and "upgraded" to 500k's I could not understand for the life of me why the guitar all of a sudden sounded harsh and thin.
Ditto.....well, almost. The JB sounds great in my Les Paul Custom once I changed the volumes back to 300K's. I only recently found out that this guitar came stock with 300K volumes and when I drank the cool aid and "upgraded" to 500k's I could not understand for the life of me why the guitar all of a sudden sounded harsh and thin.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Gibson 300K Pots -- why?
Conventional wisdom? Ha! Stop & think for a minute. Since the neck position is very bassy & loud, and the bridge is weak, thin & sharp, both are usually approached differently in PU selection. Most neck PU's are 7,000 to 8,500 ohms to keep treble & clarity. Most bridge PU's are 8,500 to 16,000+ ohms to add mids & warmth.
So why stop there? 500K pots are bright, great for a neck HB, but does that make sense on a bridge HB? Maybe, maybe not. Likewise, warm 250K/300K pots are great on the bridge, but not always on the neck. .050 and .100 caps are warm, .022 caps are bright. And you have a full range of EQ & output in the seven different magnets that are available. Lots of tools to shape your tone once you know what to do with them.
Unfortunately, manufaturers like to keep costs & parts inventories to a minimum, and often use a "one-size-fits-all" approach with pots, caps, and magnets. For one PU they are beneficial, for the other, they may not be, depending on which EQ characteristics they're adding and taking away. Just because they want to do this as cheap & simple as possible, doesn't mean you have to have the same lack of imagination. What sounds best for you isn't necessarily what a manufacturer puts in a guitar; he's trying to reach as big a market as possible, as cost-effectively as possible. You just might have to change a few things to get your magic tones.
If you have an inquiring mind, you'll probably ask why should a neck PU have the same magnets, pots, and caps as a bridge PU, as those positions are complete opposites in EQ & output. Why make one PU sound better, and push the other into a less usable direction? The classic example of these varaibles being poorly used is the infamous Gibson 490R/498T set. The neck 490R has an A2 magnet, giving you: a naturally dark position, with a dark PU (humbucker), a dark magnet with a loose low end (A2), and dark pots (300K). Not much treble or definition to be found. In a mahogany body, this can be very dull & muffled (but can work well in a bright body wood).
The bridge 498T has an A5 magnet, with lots of treble & scooped mids. This gives you a bright position, with a bright magnet, although somewhat softened by the 300K pots. The 490R & 498T are total opposites in EQ, and many players have been frustrated by trying to get one amp setting that will work for both PU's (most never succeed). Who wants to instantly go from a dark warm neck PU, to a shrill, thin tinny bridge? Or from a nice warm bridge tone, to a neck PU that sounds like its underwater?
Not only does it make sense to tweak each PU differently to best match the position, and guitar's wood, but they also need to be compatible with each other as you switch back & forth. During a gig, you can't stop in the middle of a song to change your amp & pedal settings every time you change PU's.
There are lots of variables; keep an open mind & use them to your advantage. The best tones are usually found by thinking outside the box.
Conventional wisdom? Ha! Stop & think for a minute. Since the neck position is very bassy & loud, and the bridge is weak, thin & sharp, both are usually approached differently in PU selection. Most neck PU's are 7,000 to 8,500 ohms to keep treble & clarity. Most bridge PU's are 8,500 to 16,000+ ohms to add mids & warmth.
So why stop there? 500K pots are bright, great for a neck HB, but does that make sense on a bridge HB? Maybe, maybe not. Likewise, warm 250K/300K pots are great on the bridge, but not always on the neck. .050 and .100 caps are warm, .022 caps are bright. And you have a full range of EQ & output in the seven different magnets that are available. Lots of tools to shape your tone once you know what to do with them.
Unfortunately, manufaturers like to keep costs & parts inventories to a minimum, and often use a "one-size-fits-all" approach with pots, caps, and magnets. For one PU they are beneficial, for the other, they may not be, depending on which EQ characteristics they're adding and taking away. Just because they want to do this as cheap & simple as possible, doesn't mean you have to have the same lack of imagination. What sounds best for you isn't necessarily what a manufacturer puts in a guitar; he's trying to reach as big a market as possible, as cost-effectively as possible. You just might have to change a few things to get your magic tones.
If you have an inquiring mind, you'll probably ask why should a neck PU have the same magnets, pots, and caps as a bridge PU, as those positions are complete opposites in EQ & output. Why make one PU sound better, and push the other into a less usable direction? The classic example of these varaibles being poorly used is the infamous Gibson 490R/498T set. The neck 490R has an A2 magnet, giving you: a naturally dark position, with a dark PU (humbucker), a dark magnet with a loose low end (A2), and dark pots (300K). Not much treble or definition to be found. In a mahogany body, this can be very dull & muffled (but can work well in a bright body wood).
The bridge 498T has an A5 magnet, with lots of treble & scooped mids. This gives you a bright position, with a bright magnet, although somewhat softened by the 300K pots. The 490R & 498T are total opposites in EQ, and many players have been frustrated by trying to get one amp setting that will work for both PU's (most never succeed). Who wants to instantly go from a dark warm neck PU, to a shrill, thin tinny bridge? Or from a nice warm bridge tone, to a neck PU that sounds like its underwater?
Not only does it make sense to tweak each PU differently to best match the position, and guitar's wood, but they also need to be compatible with each other as you switch back & forth. During a gig, you can't stop in the middle of a song to change your amp & pedal settings every time you change PU's.
There are lots of variables; keep an open mind & use them to your advantage. The best tones are usually found by thinking outside the box.
M
MrHeavyMetal
Guest
Re: Gibson 300K Pots -- why?
it's probably because Gibson bought a 30 year supply of 300K pots.
it's probably because Gibson bought a 30 year supply of 300K pots.
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Gibson 300K Pots -- why?
Pot values are ultimately like pickups themselves -- a matter of personal taste, and what works best in the hunk of wood you have them in.
Pot values are ultimately like pickups themselves -- a matter of personal taste, and what works best in the hunk of wood you have them in.
hamerfan
Well-known member
Re: Gibson 300K Pots -- why?
Zhang I'm with you, but most of the players do not care to much about electronics until the point it doesn't work for them.
So if you give a certain guide line, its a good start point to work on.
So I say only 500k for tone pots, since you can't hear the cap anymore if its on 10. Also 500k for neck volume and for bridge volume depends on taste and pickup. Most Players like .015uF for neck tone and .022uF for Bridge.
If i change the whole harness on gibson like, i buy 4 500k pots (CTS) and measure them. Highest resistance got to the neck vol, the both in the middle are tone pots and the lowest resistance is the bridge vol. Works great.
Zhang I'm with you, but most of the players do not care to much about electronics until the point it doesn't work for them.
So if you give a certain guide line, its a good start point to work on.
So I say only 500k for tone pots, since you can't hear the cap anymore if its on 10. Also 500k for neck volume and for bridge volume depends on taste and pickup. Most Players like .015uF for neck tone and .022uF for Bridge.
If i change the whole harness on gibson like, i buy 4 500k pots (CTS) and measure them. Highest resistance got to the neck vol, the both in the middle are tone pots and the lowest resistance is the bridge vol. Works great.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Gibson 300K Pots -- why?
I know it's a starting point, but I think a better starting point is to just say:
Guitar too bright? 250-300k
Too dark? 500k, maybe even 1 meg in extreme cases.
THE END
I know it's a starting point, but I think a better starting point is to just say:
Guitar too bright? 250-300k
Too dark? 500k, maybe even 1 meg in extreme cases.
THE END
Robert S.
Super Moderator
Re: Gibson 300K Pots -- why?
I am too far away from my electronics training to have the answer so I will ask.
How does resistance change the resonant peak pf a coil. I remember back in the day we used caps and coils to build tank circuits that would oscillate and by changibng the coil value you could change the Q of the circuit to "tune" an antenna but I didn't know that a resistive value could change Q.
Please explain.......
I am too far away from my electronics training to have the answer so I will ask.
How does resistance change the resonant peak pf a coil. I remember back in the day we used caps and coils to build tank circuits that would oscillate and by changibng the coil value you could change the Q of the circuit to "tune" an antenna but I didn't know that a resistive value could change Q.
Please explain.......
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: Gibson 300K Pots -- why?
Adding a resistor across the pickup (that's what the poti does when it is at "10", full open) lowers the amplitude of the resonance peak.
Adding a capacitor across the pickup lowers the frequency of the resonance peak. The tone poti does not do this directly, except when fully closed, but then it doesn't sound good because the tone pot capacitors are too big to apply fully. Using a longer cable is doing something like this and some people add switches to add a 1-10 nF capacitor.
Lowering the amplitude of the resonance peak (adding a resistor or using a lower resistance poti) is usually what you do when the sound is overly harsh and you need to mellow it out.
Lowering the frequency of the resonance peak is what you do if the sound is thin and generally not strong where you want it. It is rare that people add capacitors, they prefer to buy new pickups (in the ebay age it is pretty cheap to go through a couple pickups, unless you get scammed).
Adding a resistor across the pickup (that's what the poti does when it is at "10", full open) lowers the amplitude of the resonance peak.
Adding a capacitor across the pickup lowers the frequency of the resonance peak. The tone poti does not do this directly, except when fully closed, but then it doesn't sound good because the tone pot capacitors are too big to apply fully. Using a longer cable is doing something like this and some people add switches to add a 1-10 nF capacitor.
Lowering the amplitude of the resonance peak (adding a resistor or using a lower resistance poti) is usually what you do when the sound is overly harsh and you need to mellow it out.
Lowering the frequency of the resonance peak is what you do if the sound is thin and generally not strong where you want it. It is rare that people add capacitors, they prefer to buy new pickups (in the ebay age it is pretty cheap to go through a couple pickups, unless you get scammed).
