Gibson 496R worth it? Alternatives?

[Rex_Rocker]

First call: Distortion neck. But you don't like that

Next call: Leave the 496.

Next up: 59 neck, but that is the same as a 59/Distortion-BW combo. Vintage neck, Uber-hot bridge if you are into that.

Bold move: JB

I haven't tried the 496R, that's why I wanted some opinions on it if it's worth it or I should skip it altogether. Do you like yours? What is it like?

Another thing I was thinking was maybe a Slash bridge with a Ceramic maget. I'm sure I have ceramic magnets somewhere. But that might be more trouble/expensive than it's worth, considering the 496R wouldn't be that much different (at least surface level looking at the specs), and I could just get one and not have to mod it.

I wouldn't mind a '59B in there, maybe even with a Ceramic magnet, but at that point, I think I might prefer something more "different", LOL.

I've had the JB in the neck before. I found it a bit too dark, and that was in a 24 fret bright-ish PRS SE.

 

[Inflames626]

First call: Distortion neck. But you don't like that

Next call: Leave the 496.

Next up: 59 neck, but that is the same as a 59/Distortion-BW combo. Vintage neck, Uber-hot bridge if you are into that.

Bold move: JB

Aceman , I love a JB in the neck. Prefer it there than in the bridge.

I would have said this but I thought the JB might have been a tad hotter than the 500t and a little closer to a Dirty Fingers, which I'm guessing is the same as a Distortion.

(Just checked: DF is 15k according to Gibson. JB is 17.4k.

Did not see that coming. I expected more from you, Dirty Fingers.)

 

[Inflames626]

I'm not a huge fan of Alnico 5s in the bridge on their own, but these days I use those for rhythm tracks because they produce a balanced sound and less shrill ear fatigue. I use ceramics as melody/solo pups and A2s in the neck.

That said, I found the Alnico 5 498t to be much more balanced than the 500t, which to me is more of a lead/melody pickup. It gives me a little ear fatigue to play it without dialing it in, much like the Distortion does.

I contrast the 498t to the Duncan Custom 5, which I hear the huge mid scoop in like many do, vs. the Custom, which I like but lacks the Custom 5's thump.

To me, the 498t is the best of both Custom worlds. It's like an EMG 81 of the passive pickup world for me--good all rounder.

Again, I found the 496r a bit dark--like an Invader. But I am going to rewire that pot sometime because it is doing weird stuff and the sound changes slightly when it is moved. I don't think it is sounding the way it is supposed to.

I have the 496r/500t in a Floyded Epiphone Gothic with a Schaller bridge, Duncan Triple Shots on each pickup, a phase switch on the neck, and a Shadow killpot on the bridge, as well as independent volume knobs and a .047uf tone.

I got the push/pull DPDT off Amazon. I think it was a Musiclily or Radon or one of those brands. Whenever the neck pickup is out of phase, the taper appears to run in reverse. I blame the pot because I build that loadout on most of my passive guitars.

Going with a Bournes next time and am just going to ream that pot hole a little larger.

Also, I'm probably not digging it because I don't like putting ceramic pickups in the neck. I get why it's done--the (usually) bright ceramic tone offsets the dark tone of the neck position.

But I've only been happy with an EMG 60 in the neck as a ceramic. Never put an 81 in the neck. So terrible. Not sure why Kirk Hammett has done that all these years prior to his Bonebreaker set.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Inflames626 I like the 81 in the neck, LOL. Especially for leads. For cleans, yeah, no. Or at least I used to. I'm kind of over EMG's right now. I like how Fluences do the EMG thing (or at least what I like about EMG's), just better (for what I want them to do).

I also don't really judge wether I like a pickup based ont he magnet that it has. I used to think I was 100% anti A2, but I really like the Phat Cats, for example. There are many A5 pickups that I don't like as well as Ceramic, and many that I do love.

What I do personally try to stay away in a neck pickup is a combination of a weak magnet or a wind in the low 7K's... not on their own, but paired with hot bridge pickups, yeah. I don't like that mismatch. I don't know if anyone else here has that problem, but no matter how close I got the Jazz in the neck to the strings, it would just sound quieter than the JB. No matter what. But I understand some people like that mismatch and like their neck pickups more tame than their bridge pickups. I guess Seymour Duncan himself does. I've also had dual PAF Pros at once, and even both were the exact same output level, I had no problem just lowering the neck pickup enough to match the bridge pickup in volume.

 

[Inflames626]

Inflames626 I like the 81 in the neck, LOL. Especially for leads. For cleans, yeah, no. Or at least I used to. I'm kind of over EMG's right now. I like how Fluences do the EMG thing (or at least what I like about EMG's), just better (for what I want them to do).

I also don't really judge wether I like a pickup based ont he magnet that it has. I used to think I was 100% anti A2, but I really like the Phat Cats, for example. There are many A5 pickups that I don't like as well as Ceramic, and many that I do love.

What I do personally try to stay away in a neck pickup is a combination of a weak magnet or a wind in the low 7K's... not on their own, but paired with hot bridge pickups, yeah. I don't like that mismatch. I don't know if anyone else here has that problem, but no matter how close I got the Jazz in the neck to the strings, it would just sound quieter than the JB. No matter what. But I understand some people like that mismatch and like their neck pickups more tame than their bridge pickups. I guess Seymour Duncan himself does. I've also had dual PAF Pros at once, and even both were the exact same output level, I had no problem just lowering the neck pickup enough to match the bridge pickup in volume.

Rex_Rocker , good point. That's why I said "(usually) bright ceramic tone." If I recall an Invader is ceramic and one of the darkest pickups I've ever heard.

For me the 81 just sounded muffled in the neck. I go 60 for a Roland Jazz Chorus bright clean sound and a 60A for more bluesy stuff, in 24 volts. I usually don't do hot pickups in the neck but I think an 85 or 89 better suits that position. I do dig an 81 clean in the bridge though. Very lo fi Slayer "Spill the Blood" kind of clean.

You could try the Jazz bridge in the neck, although I doubt it makes much difference. If I like the overall character of a pickup but need a better match, I will go to the bridge version, like my A2PB/Custom 5 build, or even use two bridge pickups like my Custom 5/Custom build.

I agree that there are some pickups that are just better for different genres. Not sure how a Benedetto would sound distorted. I think super low output A2s are generally better for stuff like country/hybrid/chicken picking. The string separation is great and it breaks up just enough when pushed on a clean tone.

 

[beaubrummels]

FWIW IME a Custom 5 sounds like a loud Jazz bridge, so if a Jazz isn't hot enough, a Custom 5 in the neck might be the next level.

 

[Mincer]

I don't know if I'm the minority, but even if I love the pickups in my guitars, I tend to swap them out eventually because I don't like playing throught the same pickups all the time, and I like trying new stuff out.

If I like the sound, I don't change a thing. I have to be motivated to work on aspects of my sound- amp settings, replacement parts, etc. I won't do it to hope for 'better', or just for fun. I'd rather just play.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

If I like the sound, I don't change a thing. I have to be motivated to work on aspects of my sound- amp settings, replacement parts, etc. I won't do it to hope for 'better', or just for fun. I'd rather just play.

I've come to the realization I'd make for a much better producer or audio engineer than a musician. I mean, I like making music as much as anyone, but to me, a BIG part of the fun of playing guitar is making different sounds and realizing what changes affect what part of the sound. And that to me is as much fun as playing.

It's a pickup forum. We're all passionate about pickups, I guess just in different ways.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

FWIW IME a Custom 5 sounds like a loud Jazz bridge, so if a Jazz isn't hot enough, a Custom 5 in the neck might be the next level.

It's not really just the output of the Jazz that I don't like, but the EQ as well.

 

[beaubrummels]

It's not really just the output of the Jazz that I don't like, but the EQ as well.

Yeah got that. I was more posting for all the other people reading that might benefit.

 

[Aceman]

Aceman , I love a JB in the neck. Prefer it there than in the bridge.

I would have said this but I thought the JB might have been a tad hotter than the 500t and a little closer to a Dirty Fingers, which I'm guessing is the same as a Distortion.

(Just checked: DF is 15k according to Gibson. JB is 17.4k.

Did not see that coming. I expected more from you, Dirty Fingers.)

I love me some Dirty Fingers!

But not with a 500T/Distortion

 

[Mincer]

I've come to the realization I'd make for a much better producer or audio engineer than a musician. I mean, I like making music as much as anyone, but to me, a BIG part of the fun of playing guitar is making different sounds and realizing what changes affect what part of the sound. And that to me is as much fun as playing.

It's a pickup forum. We're all passionate about pickups, I guess just in different ways.

Oh I get that- that's a big part of what I do, too. But once I find a solution to whatever the problem is, I move on to the next one. If there aren't any current problems (like figuring out how to get a certain sound), I just wind up playing or writing.

 

[freefrog]

Hadn't seen this topic.

I currently have 500T / 496R in the 6 strings part of a double neck guitar.

The 496R works well with the 500T, for sure.

Is it a desirable pickup? Not for me. Too much muddy low mids in 3 different guitars. Reason why it ended in a more rarely used double neck... With 24 frets putting the neck PU closer to the bridge, it's less muddy. It does the job.

Something to say is that 496R's as I know them appear to exhibit an extremely high stray capacitance: their measured resonant peak is noticeably lower pitched than with other pickups of the same inductance (4.8H). Hence a dark voicing and lack of clarity compared to old unpotted Gibson PU's or to boutique products. But that's what makes a 496R work with a 500T...

Maybe I'd recommend "the" 496R as a... bridge pickup, finally.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Hadn't seen this topic.

I currently have 500T / 496R in the 6 strings part of a double neck guitar.

The 496R works well with the 500T, for sure.

Is it a desirable pickup? Not for me. Too much muddy low mids in 3 different guitars. Reason why it ended in a more rarely used double neck... With 24 frets putting the neck PU closer to the bridge, it's less muddy. It does the job.

Something to say is that 496R's as I know them appear to exhibit an extremely high stray capacitance: their measured resonant peak is noticeably lower pitched than with other pickups of the same inductance (4.8H). Hence a dark voicing and lack of clarity compared to old unpotted Gibson PU's or to boutique products. But that's what makes a 496R work with a 500T...

Maybe I'd recommend "the" 496R as a... bridge pickup, finally.

I actually like my neck pickups darker than most, just as long as they're not bassy either. Buf if these are too lower-middy, not sure if I'd dig them.

I've actually read it's kinda muddy, but that actually surprises me considering it's low-ish DCR, and a bright magnet. I don't see what's pulling that resonant peak down, but it seems to be common opinion about it.

 

[jeremy]

they 496r is an 8.2k wind ceramic mag pup if i remember correctly. i dont find it overly bassy, but its not bright either. i find it great for fat solos through a dirty amp

 

[freefrog]

I don't see what's pulling that resonant peak down

Parasitic capacitance, mostly.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I'm actually surprised. Where is that parasitic capacitance coming from?

The DiMarzio Super 2 is roughly the same DCR, yet it has a brass baseplate, and DiMarzio really emphasize how bright it is.

I didn't think it was any brighter than an average Duncan PAF-type, but it was pretty bright for being THAT hot.

I understand just going on DCR is oversimplifying, but I'd like to learn what can make a pickup that should be very bright so dark.

 

[beaubrummels]

I believe parasitic capacitance is through the insulation of the coil wires, no?

 

[freefrog]

I'm actually surprised. Where is that parasitic capacitance coming from?

The DiMarzio Super 2 is roughly the same DCR, yet it has a brass baseplate, and DiMarzio really emphasize how bright it is.

I didn't think it was any brighter than an average Duncan PAF-type, but it was pretty bright for being THAT hot.

I understand just going on DCR is oversimplifying, but I'd like to learn what can make a pickup that should be very bright so dark.

Parasitic capacitance comes partly from wire insulation mentioned by beaubrummel and partly from other factors: a loosely scatter wound coil should exhibit less stray capacitance than an even one, wound with more tension. Braided shielded wire can be capacitive, in potentially surprising proportions: a bit of moisture in the cotton insulation and stray capacitance can be 3 to 4 times higher. Wax used for potting has also a high dielectric constant. Not to mention how a tape around a coil can make it more capacitive. Put all these factors together and the resonant peak will be way lower pitched.

A DiMarzio SD (2 or 1) is a different beast: it has a higher inductance but less capacitive coils, a less capacitive 4 conductors cable (affecting only the high harmonics because of coupling but with a double tuning effect potentially able to make a pickup brighter. I've devoted a whole topic to this question on the music-electronics forum). Its double thick magnet is also noticeably more gaussed than the ceramic bar in a 496R hence a more agressive brighter response. Etc. Non limitative list.

If time permits, I'll share later a comparison between resonant peaks of a 496R and a T-Top clone, with further comments.

EDIT:
-Checked my data. They state identical surface Gauss measurements for a 496R than with a SH1. IOW, the short ceramic bar mounted in a 496R is not much charged and doesn"t make the flux more powerful than with an A5 bar.
-Below are the resonant peaks obtained in strictly identical conditions from each coil in a 496R (black and pink lines) vs a (covered) 4 conductors T-Top clone wound by one of our local artisans (red and green lines)... Vertical steps = increments of 1dB. Linear scale. The T-Top clone had logically a lower DCR/inductance than the 496R but it doesn't totally explain a resonance lowered of more than 1khz: stray capacitance is the only remaining factor able to justify such a gap.
That said, the 496R has also a higher Q factor and/or more eddy currents, attributable to how the coils were wound + the composition of magnetic circuit (slugs, screws, keeper bar).

 

[ToneFiddler]

....
i dont find it overly bassy, but its not bright either. i find it great for fat solos through a dirty amp

this