uOpt
Something Cool
Re: gibson 70s or 90s?
Too bad those claims don't mix with what everybody else says.
Do you have one of those?
Too bad those claims don't mix with what everybody else says.
Do you have one of those?
gibson 70s or 90s?
- Thread starter jamie_eyp
- Start date
JeffB
Let it B
Re: gibson 70s or 90s?
I have learned over the years to rate Gibsons on an individual basis. I messed around with a 74 pancake standard yesterday that I would take over any of the modern historics I have played including the one I owned, which was a complete monster.
In fact I have only played 2 other Les Pauls I would take over that pancake. An original 57 and original 59. The Norlin is alot more affordable
Edit- I love historics. My point here is that pancaker absolutely was world class.
I have learned over the years to rate Gibsons on an individual basis. I messed around with a 74 pancake standard yesterday that I would take over any of the modern historics I have played including the one I owned, which was a complete monster.
In fact I have only played 2 other Les Pauls I would take over that pancake. An original 57 and original 59. The Norlin is alot more affordable
Edit- I love historics. My point here is that pancaker absolutely was world class.
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uOpt
Something Cool
Re: gibson 70s or 90s?
The pancake body and the three-piece neck are usually clearly visible on the guitars that have it, even if they are black (via a bit of a line). Many early 1970s miss one or the other. You can also see maple necks through paint chips, or lack of maple. It really was quite a bit more chaotic than the linkbait above suggests.
The pancake body and the three-piece neck are usually clearly visible on the guitars that have it, even if they are black (via a bit of a line). Many early 1970s miss one or the other. You can also see maple necks through paint chips, or lack of maple. It really was quite a bit more chaotic than the linkbait above suggests.
Re: gibson 70s or 90s?
There were only 2 models that came with older style building specs. The 54RI BB, and the 58RI, that was actually a Goldtop 54 RI.....both from 1972 into 73
All others were built on the pancake line.
I don't doubt there may well be one or two made that managed to scrape through 1 piece, perhaps from staff members for themselves or leftover wood from the 72 limited edition models above. But Gibson/Norlin wasn't buying wood with the right dimensions to do this consistently.
And my 74 Custom has paint so smooth that unless it wasn't Wine Red and therefore transparent you'd never know it was pancake or 3 piece.
There were only 2 models that came with older style building specs. The 54RI BB, and the 58RI, that was actually a Goldtop 54 RI.....both from 1972 into 73
All others were built on the pancake line.
I don't doubt there may well be one or two made that managed to scrape through 1 piece, perhaps from staff members for themselves or leftover wood from the 72 limited edition models above. But Gibson/Norlin wasn't buying wood with the right dimensions to do this consistently.
And my 74 Custom has paint so smooth that unless it wasn't Wine Red and therefore transparent you'd never know it was pancake or 3 piece.
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: gibson 70s or 90s?
Wood, especially cheap wood, moves a bit. If it is 3-piece, be it a body or a neck, you can usually see it through the thin paints on the things, or even modern Gibsons. You can always tell how many pieces a black SG is made from because it just isn't possible to do it seamless for after the wood has settled some more.
In any case, you have to do better than a random forum link to convince me to jus eat up something that goes contrary to most other claims. And contrary to what you see under finishes that are semi-transparent such as wine red, or that have paint chips clearly not showing maple on the neck.
Wood, especially cheap wood, moves a bit. If it is 3-piece, be it a body or a neck, you can usually see it through the thin paints on the things, or even modern Gibsons. You can always tell how many pieces a black SG is made from because it just isn't possible to do it seamless for after the wood has settled some more.
In any case, you have to do better than a random forum link to convince me to jus eat up something that goes contrary to most other claims. And contrary to what you see under finishes that are semi-transparent such as wine red, or that have paint chips clearly not showing maple on the neck.
Re: gibson 70s or 90s?
I will quite readily believe MLP norlin forum over you, as will most others I guess......much more knowledge and wisdom there including people who worked there during this period. The posters there and their level of expertise plus the resources there are fantastic. I've yet to see any evidence to support this 'conventional wisdom' you speak of from many years of looking at Norlin guitars through many examples from MLP and other places. Can you provide links to these?
And this 'random link' as you call it is a collection of many people's experienced knowledge, those who have much experience in looking at Norlins. You on the other hand.......well I've not seen any links to this 'common knowledge' as you call it save for you mentioning it. This seems to me a term you've just pulled out of the air.
And yes, pre 75 (the move to the short tenon and Nashville plant opening) does have mahogany, just 3 piece. I said that before but perhaps you didn't read properly. There are plenty of examples of guitars which have better paintjobs and woods that haven't moved.....that was the whole point of the pancake body - but you'd know this if you knew anything about this era of Gibson production. Anyhow you seem convinced despite much proof......and just about any pursuit in the world is more important to me than trying any further to convince the likes of you.
I will quite readily believe MLP norlin forum over you, as will most others I guess......much more knowledge and wisdom there including people who worked there during this period. The posters there and their level of expertise plus the resources there are fantastic. I've yet to see any evidence to support this 'conventional wisdom' you speak of from many years of looking at Norlin guitars through many examples from MLP and other places. Can you provide links to these?
And this 'random link' as you call it is a collection of many people's experienced knowledge, those who have much experience in looking at Norlins. You on the other hand.......well I've not seen any links to this 'common knowledge' as you call it save for you mentioning it. This seems to me a term you've just pulled out of the air.
And yes, pre 75 (the move to the short tenon and Nashville plant opening) does have mahogany, just 3 piece. I said that before but perhaps you didn't read properly. There are plenty of examples of guitars which have better paintjobs and woods that haven't moved.....that was the whole point of the pancake body - but you'd know this if you knew anything about this era of Gibson production. Anyhow you seem convinced despite much proof......and just about any pursuit in the world is more important to me than trying any further to convince the likes of you.
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Lucid_Lunatic
Rebelyellologist
Re: gibson 70s or 90s?
You're going to find good and bad from both decades. It seems to me though that quality didn't vary as widely during the 90's and finding a great one from that decade is easier than finding the great ones from the 70's.
You're going to find good and bad from both decades. It seems to me though that quality didn't vary as widely during the 90's and finding a great one from that decade is easier than finding the great ones from the 70's.
ItsaBass
New member
Re: gibson 70s or 90s?
The only thing right about that is that the maple necks were not there yet.
That isn't really right either. No "early" '69's had a pancake body or a three-piece neck. Your general point of telling the other guy that he is 2/3 full of **** is good, but your months are just not correct. Pancake bodies started in very late 1969 (i.e. December). Three-piece mahogany (plus the headstock ears) no-volute necks were there mid May '69 at the very earliest examples, though didn't start regularly till June.
None of this stuff is bad in and of itself, specs wise. Three piece necks (and volutes, for that matter) are pretty traditional, and they are good building practices taken from the world of acoustic guitars, actually. Maple necks are also not weird in the luthiery world. What makes the Norlin guitars kind of gross is just that Norlin was a corporation that had no real interest in guitars, that took over a struggling business just because they saw it solely as a financial investment. Norlin guitars reflected that non-interested, bottom-line-oriented corporate ownership, in the general sense. That doesn't mean they were horrible guitars...but they certainly were products of their environment/situation. Costs and corners were cut all over the place during their short rule...not to mention that it was during two of the worst decades ever in terms of style and fashion ('70's and '80's), so any cosmetic decisions that were made were just plain ghastly.
The only thing right about that is that the maple necks were not there yet.
That isn't really right either. No "early" '69's had a pancake body or a three-piece neck. Your general point of telling the other guy that he is 2/3 full of **** is good, but your months are just not correct. Pancake bodies started in very late 1969 (i.e. December). Three-piece mahogany (plus the headstock ears) no-volute necks were there mid May '69 at the very earliest examples, though didn't start regularly till June.
None of this stuff is bad in and of itself, specs wise. Three piece necks (and volutes, for that matter) are pretty traditional, and they are good building practices taken from the world of acoustic guitars, actually. Maple necks are also not weird in the luthiery world. What makes the Norlin guitars kind of gross is just that Norlin was a corporation that had no real interest in guitars, that took over a struggling business just because they saw it solely as a financial investment. Norlin guitars reflected that non-interested, bottom-line-oriented corporate ownership, in the general sense. That doesn't mean they were horrible guitars...but they certainly were products of their environment/situation. Costs and corners were cut all over the place during their short rule...not to mention that it was during two of the worst decades ever in terms of style and fashion ('70's and '80's), so any cosmetic decisions that were made were just plain ghastly.
Re: gibson 70s or 90s?
Also: most Norlins I've seen have a very shallow top carve. It was a production decision-one of those cut corners-and while it looks odd, it's purely cosmetic. Part of the reason the 05 and 93 went is because I'd gotten so used to the 73's top that the deeper carve felt weird.
Also: most Norlins I've seen have a very shallow top carve. It was a production decision-one of those cut corners-and while it looks odd, it's purely cosmetic. Part of the reason the 05 and 93 went is because I'd gotten so used to the 73's top that the deeper carve felt weird.
uOpt
Something Cool
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