sixstringsamurai333
New member
Featuring Lollars! Pretty cool, and quintessentially Chris - more info here: http://sixstringsamurai.co.nz/2013/04/04/gibson-chris-cornell-es335-announced/
Gibson announce limited edition Chris Cornell ES335!
- Thread starter sixstringsamurai333
- Start date
Chris of Arabia
Desert RATT
Re: Gibson announce limited edition Chris Cornell ES335!
Nice. I could be tempted by that.
Nice. I could be tempted by that.
sixstringsamurai333
New member
Re: Gibson announce limited edition Chris Cornell ES335!
Looks like pricing is in the same ballpark as the normal Dot - no question which one I would buy if I were looking to spend that kind of money!
Looks like pricing is in the same ballpark as the normal Dot - no question which one I would buy if I were looking to spend that kind of money!
sixstringsamurai333
New member
Re: Gibson announce limited edition Chris Cornell ES335!
Don't forget that Lollars are probably a fairly expensive upgrade, considering they have to buy them rather than just make them in-house.
Personally, I love satin finishes!
Wonder what the street price will be like, at any rate. I'm really digging the green one.
Don't forget that Lollars are probably a fairly expensive upgrade, considering they have to buy them rather than just make them in-house.
Personally, I love satin finishes!
Wonder what the street price will be like, at any rate. I'm really digging the green one.
That90'sGuy
DyzaBoyzologist
Re: Gibson announce limited edition Chris Cornell ES335!
This is the only signature guitar I want more than Neil Young's old black. Soundgarden is one of my favorite bands of all time, I love green, I love ES-335s and the Lollartrons are a cool twist. Oh yeah, and Chris Cornell is the ****ing ****. If I ever find one used for around 2k, I'll be all over that, but I doubt it'll ever drop that low.
This is the only signature guitar I want more than Neil Young's old black. Soundgarden is one of my favorite bands of all time, I love green, I love ES-335s and the Lollartrons are a cool twist. Oh yeah, and Chris Cornell is the ****ing ****. If I ever find one used for around 2k, I'll be all over that, but I doubt it'll ever drop that low.
ratherdashing
Kablamminator
Re: Gibson announce limited edition Chris Cornell ES335!
Where's my Kim Thayil Guild S100 dammit?
Where's my Kim Thayil Guild S100 dammit?
Rand-O-Monium
New member
Re: Gibson announce limited edition Chris Cornell ES335!
Meh...
Sorry
.02
Meh...
Sorry
.02
sixstringsamurai333
New member
Re: Gibson announce limited edition Chris Cornell ES335!
Wow... Well, for starters that's only the MAP price anyway, street price will be way less. Also - have you ever tried to make a hollow/semi-hollow? Let's just say it's a bit more time intensive than making a solidbody...
I find it funny how people perceive satin/flat finishes to be "cheap". Personally, I prefer 'em, and think they often sound better than heavily gooped finishes. And it might just be me but I think the nitro that Gibson shoots these days isn't the same as back in the old days - my 2000 LP Classic has a finish that is visibily less than 1mm thick in the places it's worn through, whereas the new ones seem a little too poly-looking to me...
Plus, let's be realistic... a Ltd Ed, signature guitar is always going to cost more. It's just business and marketing, plain and simple.
Wow... Well, for starters that's only the MAP price anyway, street price will be way less. Also - have you ever tried to make a hollow/semi-hollow? Let's just say it's a bit more time intensive than making a solidbody...
I find it funny how people perceive satin/flat finishes to be "cheap". Personally, I prefer 'em, and think they often sound better than heavily gooped finishes. And it might just be me but I think the nitro that Gibson shoots these days isn't the same as back in the old days - my 2000 LP Classic has a finish that is visibily less than 1mm thick in the places it's worn through, whereas the new ones seem a little too poly-looking to me...
Plus, let's be realistic... a Ltd Ed, signature guitar is always going to cost more. It's just business and marketing, plain and simple.
ratherdashing
Kablamminator
Re: Gibson announce limited edition Chris Cornell ES335!
Do you think before you post, or do you just mash the keys and hope for the best?
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...figured-top-electric-guitar-with-gloss-finish
Do you think before you post, or do you just mash the keys and hope for the best?
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...figured-top-electric-guitar-with-gloss-finish
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Gibson announce limited edition Chris Cornell ES335!
That's not true at all. "Street price" for a new guitar refers to the common retail price...which is almost always M.A.P. +/- a little. Most dealers don't stray far at all from M.A.P., let alone sell for "way less" as a matter of course. It must be list price that you're thinking of.
In that case, $3,300 list would translate to about $2,300 retail. That's far more reasonable. It's still expensive on an absolute level, but at least it would make sense in terms of relative pricing. That is, a matte guitar should be significantly less expensive than a gloss guitar, because it lowers the labor costs significantly by speeding production time. Gibson pricing indicates that a new matte guitar is about 35 percent less valuable than the same model with a standard finish. So, take a plain-top, glossy 335 at $3,000 retail. Being matte knocks it down 35 percent to $1,950. Again, expensive, but logical in terms of relative pricing. Yet retail is $1,350 higher than that. So, a buyer just has to decide if it being a limited edition signature guitar is worth paying an extra 70 percent over what the guitar in its own right should probably cost. Maybe yes and maybe no. It's up to each buyer. But personally, I'd get a used ES-333 and a few cans of flat olive drab spraypaint.
That's not true at all. "Street price" for a new guitar refers to the common retail price...which is almost always M.A.P. +/- a little. Most dealers don't stray far at all from M.A.P., let alone sell for "way less" as a matter of course. It must be list price that you're thinking of.
In that case, $3,300 list would translate to about $2,300 retail. That's far more reasonable. It's still expensive on an absolute level, but at least it would make sense in terms of relative pricing. That is, a matte guitar should be significantly less expensive than a gloss guitar, because it lowers the labor costs significantly by speeding production time. Gibson pricing indicates that a new matte guitar is about 35 percent less valuable than the same model with a standard finish. So, take a plain-top, glossy 335 at $3,000 retail. Being matte knocks it down 35 percent to $1,950. Again, expensive, but logical in terms of relative pricing. Yet retail is $1,350 higher than that. So, a buyer just has to decide if it being a limited edition signature guitar is worth paying an extra 70 percent over what the guitar in its own right should probably cost. Maybe yes and maybe no. It's up to each buyer. But personally, I'd get a used ES-333 and a few cans of flat olive drab spraypaint.
Last edited:
ratherdashing
Kablamminator
Re: Gibson announce limited edition Chris Cornell ES335!
There's no way a 335 should cost over $1,000 less just because it has a matte finish! That is faulty reasoning.
There's no way a 335 should cost over $1,000 less just because it has a matte finish! That is faulty reasoning.
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Gibson announce limited edition Chris Cornell ES335!
It is perfectly well reasoned. 30 to 40 percent less for a matte finish...just like Gibson tends to do with SGs and LPs.
I also have an example of precedent that is not even 10 years old. I recall my old 333 – basically, a matte 335. No headstock inlay, open 490's instead of covered '57's (better IMO), and no guard. But otherwise, the same guitar as a gloss 335 at the time – even better in one way: it had a back door. They listed at $1,500, and retailed for $1,000–$1,200. That was half of what a plain-top 335 cost at the time.
You may disagree with my conclusion that the limited edition and signature aspects of the Cornell account for 40 percent of its $3,300 price tag (and that was clearly my point – not whether or not anyone should or shouldn't buy it). But that is not the same thing as my reasoning being faulty. It was actually most logical. And if you are going to flatly say someone's reasoning is flawed, at least name some reasoning of your own. What is your reasoning for a matte 335 being lowered in price by a smaller percentage than a matte SG or LP?
It is perfectly well reasoned. 30 to 40 percent less for a matte finish...just like Gibson tends to do with SGs and LPs.
I also have an example of precedent that is not even 10 years old. I recall my old 333 – basically, a matte 335. No headstock inlay, open 490's instead of covered '57's (better IMO), and no guard. But otherwise, the same guitar as a gloss 335 at the time – even better in one way: it had a back door. They listed at $1,500, and retailed for $1,000–$1,200. That was half of what a plain-top 335 cost at the time.
You may disagree with my conclusion that the limited edition and signature aspects of the Cornell account for 40 percent of its $3,300 price tag (and that was clearly my point – not whether or not anyone should or shouldn't buy it). But that is not the same thing as my reasoning being faulty. It was actually most logical. And if you are going to flatly say someone's reasoning is flawed, at least name some reasoning of your own. What is your reasoning for a matte 335 being lowered in price by a smaller percentage than a matte SG or LP?
Agileguy_101
Master of his Domain
Re: Gibson announce limited edition Chris Cornell ES335!
All the misconceptions make me lol
and loose a little faith in humanity
But I must laugh because the alternative is letting the idiots win.
All the misconceptions make me lol
and loose a little faith in humanity
But I must laugh because the alternative is letting the idiots win.
ratherdashing
Kablamminator
Re: Gibson announce limited edition Chris Cornell ES335!
(sigh) really? Okay, but I'm only going to try explaining this once. If you still don't get it after reading this, I give up.
Your reasoning rests on two faulty assumptions:
1. You assume that the mark-up for a gloss finish is the same fixed ratio for EVERY GUITAR. This is completely false! I'm a bit blown away that I even have to explain this. It does NOT, under any possible way of figuring it, cost an extra thousand bucks to do a full gloss polish on a 335! The work required to do a polish on a 335 is only very slightly higher than for a LP or SG. You can't just pie chart the feature costs of a cheaper, easier-to-build guitar and apply that template across everything else. That's not how manufacturing works. If it costs you $100 to make 100 cupcakes, it will not cost you $200 to make 200 cupcakes (unless you're a complete moron).
2. You assume that the matte finish accounts for the entirety of the price difference in the guitars you're referring to. Again, completely false! Apples to oranges! Even in the personal example you cited, you listed four cost-saving features (yes, the back door cut-out is a BIG cost saver ... ever tried to wire a hollow-body through the F hole?) that have nothing to do with the finish. This is the case with all other Gibson matte finished guitars I've ever seen - they are spec'd down in many ways to reduce cost. You can't attribute the entire price difference to a matte finish.
The Cornell 335 has a matte finish, which is for sure a cost saver (less polishing labour). However, it also has Lollar pickups and a Bigsby, PLUS it has all the regular 335 appointments. Yes, there is probably a bit of mark-up for the Cornell name, but your contention that this accounts for 40% of the sticker price is absurd, and rests on your two aforementioned faulty assumptions. The pricing of this guitar is well in line with the non-sig 335, especially considering the upgrades. Besides, a 40% bump for a sig would be waaaay out of whack with the rest of the industry (do the YJM Fury pickups cost 40% more than Classic Stack Plus pickups? Does a Clapton Strat cost 40% more than a 57 AVRI?)
I know it's fun to be cynical and pretend that celebrity endorsements are a huge cash grab and/or guitar companies are all out to screw us, but that's not what's happening here.
(sigh) really? Okay, but I'm only going to try explaining this once. If you still don't get it after reading this, I give up.
Your reasoning rests on two faulty assumptions:
1. You assume that the mark-up for a gloss finish is the same fixed ratio for EVERY GUITAR. This is completely false! I'm a bit blown away that I even have to explain this. It does NOT, under any possible way of figuring it, cost an extra thousand bucks to do a full gloss polish on a 335! The work required to do a polish on a 335 is only very slightly higher than for a LP or SG. You can't just pie chart the feature costs of a cheaper, easier-to-build guitar and apply that template across everything else. That's not how manufacturing works. If it costs you $100 to make 100 cupcakes, it will not cost you $200 to make 200 cupcakes (unless you're a complete moron).
2. You assume that the matte finish accounts for the entirety of the price difference in the guitars you're referring to. Again, completely false! Apples to oranges! Even in the personal example you cited, you listed four cost-saving features (yes, the back door cut-out is a BIG cost saver ... ever tried to wire a hollow-body through the F hole?) that have nothing to do with the finish. This is the case with all other Gibson matte finished guitars I've ever seen - they are spec'd down in many ways to reduce cost. You can't attribute the entire price difference to a matte finish.
The Cornell 335 has a matte finish, which is for sure a cost saver (less polishing labour). However, it also has Lollar pickups and a Bigsby, PLUS it has all the regular 335 appointments. Yes, there is probably a bit of mark-up for the Cornell name, but your contention that this accounts for 40% of the sticker price is absurd, and rests on your two aforementioned faulty assumptions. The pricing of this guitar is well in line with the non-sig 335, especially considering the upgrades. Besides, a 40% bump for a sig would be waaaay out of whack with the rest of the industry (do the YJM Fury pickups cost 40% more than Classic Stack Plus pickups? Does a Clapton Strat cost 40% more than a 57 AVRI?)
I know it's fun to be cynical and pretend that celebrity endorsements are a huge cash grab and/or guitar companies are all out to screw us, but that's not what's happening here.
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
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