Gibson Dirty Fingers?

[Rex_Rocker]

Another "curious about this pickup" thread from me. Please bear with me!

So what is this pickup like? Specs seem kinda Invader-y, kinda Black Winter-y. Is it anything like those? How do these compare to the usual suspects?

Thanks!

 

[Aceman]

Ignore the specs.

It is not like any of them. It is a Dirty Fingers IMO.

NOT a SuperD/ToneZone
NOT an X2N
NOT an Invader
NOT a Distortion/Black Winter

 

[Aceman]

[No message]

 

[Aceman]

[No message]

 

[Aceman]

Neither of those are good clips, really, IMO, but might help.

 

[alex1fly]

Loud, articulate, crispy. Introduced in the 70s as another way to drive the front end of an amp. One of those "iconic pickups" that is no longer relevant with modern amp setups, yet still sells because it does what it does well and is a solid shortcut to recognizable high gain tones.

 

[Inflames626]

Aceman finds the best stuff and always makes very insightful observations. Certainly one of the most helpful forum members. Thank you.

IMO, the types of tone dialed in from the amp used can determine the pickup.

I play more with a tone the guy in the first video had. The 498t is my go to pickup for playing rhythm and lead from the same guitar, and I'm a ceramic in the bridge/Alnico II in neck vs. Alnico V guy usually. The 498t is just very balanced. To my ear the 500t is pushing it with that level of gain, and by the time you get to the Dirty Fingers it's like gain, treble, and presence go to 11 and it becomes a fizzy mess.

I think it was a Peavey Triple X amp that had a knob called "hair," which I think was presence, and that's what I think of with these higher output pickups these days--a fizzy, nasally, scratchy mess.

That isn't to say Invaders, Dirty Fingers, X2N, etc., are bad. For the mildly distorted tones the guy in the Tom Delonge video was using, I find the higher output pickups helped out the sound immensely.

So if you're going pop punk, maybe go with the higher output pickups for the way they break up cleans into distortion.

But here is where alex1fly makes a good point--in the modern world of infinite gain and impulse responses, the high output pickups seem to hurt tone more than they help.

Then again, there's always an exception. From 1987-1998 Chuck Schuldiner used a BC Rich Stealth with a DiMarzio X2N through a boosted Marshall Valvestate. He ended up creating some of the most influential tones in melodic death metal, especially from Human (1991) on. For people of my age and musical tastes, those were some incredible tones obtained from some very modest gear.

But I would say Chuck is an exception. So:

High output pickup = modest amp distortion

Low to mid output pickup = more amp distortion

Also, if I recall James Hetfield briefly used a Dirty Fingers around the Ride the Lightning/Master of Puppets era. Once the ESP/EMG endorsements came in 1987-88, the revolving door of gear stopped for them, but if you like early Metallica tones it may have been a Dirty Fingers out of a Vantage Gibson V copy.

Here is more on that:
https://www.groundguitar.com/james-hetfield-guitars-and-gear/

 

[LLL]

The best example of a famous, bona-fide guitar hero who is a fretboard master who uses the Gibson Dirty Fingers pickup primarily would be:

John Sykes (during Whitesnake and Blue Murder days)

 

[Aceman]

A To my ear the 500t is pushing it with that level of gain, and by the time you get to the Dirty Fingers it's like gain, treble, and presence go to 11 and it becomes a fizzy mess.
[/QUOTE]

Excellent statement. I [I]almost[/I] said it is hairy/fuzzy/fizzy.

But again - High gain pickup, plus high gain amp on 10, equals muddy fuzzy mess, as you mentioned. The 500T's and Dirty Fingers, are for pushing those regular old JCM800's into awesome.

That said, I do like them (and currently have a few Distortion loaded guitars and one X2N!). But you need to use restraint on the amp gain.

I could see that pop-punk breakup think with a DF or an X2N easily. In fact...it's what happens when I run the X2N through my little Fender Pro Jr.

 

[Inflames626]

I could see that pop-punk breakup think with a DF or an X2N easily. In fact...it's what happens when I run the X2N through my little Fender Pro Jr.

And, on the flip side of that, I could only see using super high output pickups for recording high gain solos because of how they compress and cut through a mix.

As an example, I only use my Duncan Distortion when tracking solos.

So for me it usually goes:

Rhythm: Alnico V and some ceramics
Lead: mainly ceramics, brighter Alnico Vs
Blues, warm cleans: Alnico II
Bright cleans: ceramic

Of course the wind of the pickup will change these so they're not hard and fast rules, but they are loose guidelines I use.

I might also add an Alnico II in the bridge for things like hybrid and chicken picking, but since those aren't really my style of playing I don't include them.

But when I did experiment with an Alnico II in the bridge (Gibson 57 Classic and maybe a Screamin Demon) I thought, "Wow, put these on clean and play some Albert Lee or Paul Simon's "Graceland" through it." ZZ Top might sound great through an Alnico II pickup as well.

 

[Securb]

The 500t is a great pickup they came stock in the Gibson Sonex except for the Sonex Deluxe. The Sonex Deluxe came with super hot Velvet Brick pickups designed by Bill Lawrence when he worked at Gibson. The Velvet Brick is another super hot Gibson OEM pickup worth checking out.

 

[Aceman]

Guitar Regret: A guy offered me an Explorer (E/2) with two double cream DF's back in the mid 90's.

 

[Mikelamury]

Very insightful, I was curious about the dirty fingers because I'm going to replace the 490t in the bridge of my SG standard with a dirty fingers. I'm not liking the alnico 2 in the bridge (except for the palm mutes). I had one in a tom delonge es333 a long time ago but remember liking it but I really didn't have alot of knowledge about what sounded good back then or what didn't. I'm going for the uncovered bobbins of the dirty fingers in the bridge to go with the 490r in the neck. I think it's going to sound good. Thanks for the education guys.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

But here is where alex1fly makes a good point--in the modern world of infinite gain and impulse responses, the high output pickups seem to hurt tone more than they help.

I disagree. The Black Winter sounded incredible through my EVH. So does the X2N and the 500T. Plenty of people using pickups like the Duncan Distortion through high-gain amps as well.

 

[alex1fly]

I disagree. The Black Winter sounded incredible through my EVH. So does the X2N and the 500T. Plenty of people using pickups like the Duncan Distortion through high-gain amps as well.

I was more saying that their original purpose is no longer needed. Made no comment on the quality of sound. Dirty Fingers has stood the test of time and probably isn't going away any time soon.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I was more saying that their original purpose is no longer needed. Made no comment on the quality of sound. Dirty Fingers has stood the test of time and probably isn't going away any time soon.

No, yeah, I understood. I was referring more to the statement saying "high output pickups seem to hurt tone more than they help", which wasn't yours.

They have got a tone, yes, but I honestly like the whole feel and tone of a high voltage monster hitting a driven amp, modern or otherwise, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

 

[Inflames626]

Rex_Rocker , I don't blame you. The Distortion sounds good. But I find I can get a lot of that grit I want from the boost pedal in my DAW instead of the pickup. I had a Gibson 57 Classic + chugging some serious metal out of the bridge in Pod Farm through a boosted Marshall.

I still do have and use my high output pickups. I just save them for leads.

Also sorry for misunderstanding alex1fly . I thought he was basically saying the DFs were obsolete and no longer desired/needed, which for me is kind of the case.

 

[Aceman]

The power is not necessarily needed for overdrive/push/distortion....but that power also has a feel and responsiveness to it, a compression, and of course, every pickup has its own eq curve.

 

[Inflames626]

Hope I'm not beating this one to death, but I just happened to run across it and thought of this thread.

Canadian thrash metal guitar virtuoso Jeff Waters of Annihilator was one of my influences growing up. He posted something about the gear he used and the guy in the YouTube vid recreated it here.

Not sure what pickups Jeff used in the late 80s/early 90s but the guy in the vid was able to sound almost exactly like the early Annihilator records with a Dirty Fingers through a Boss OD-1 and 50 watt Marshall with conservative gain settings.

This probably would have sounded very different had a less hot pickup been used through a rig with the gain settings turned up higher.

Anyway, I hope it helps you get a sense of the sound, as I've never played a DF. I'm finding the 498t/500t enough for me.

https://youtu.be/vfwwNJCq_gQ?t=238

 

[Inflames626]

Also I'm really digging that Thunderbird bass tone in the video. Not sure if that is what bassist Wayne Darley used but it sounds good here.