Gibson files to cancel DiMarzio’s PAF and Double Cream pickup trademarks

[MikeS]

I was under the impression that importing goods that copy a US trademark was prohibited. At any rate, it will be interesting to read about the conclusion of the case in 4 years after we've all forgotten about it.

 

[marcello252]

a double-cream humbucker can get one delivered to their door with absolutely zero problem:

https://www.amazon.com/LYWS-Electric-Guitar-Humbucker-Pickups/dp/B08BLLWZPL/ref=sr_1_6?crid=24CORMLBU705S&keywords=cream%2Bhumbucker&qid=1702606975&sprefix=cream%2Bhumbucker%2Caps%2C135&sr=8-6&th=1

BTW, Tesla pickups are not that bad at all

 

[beaubrummels]

I was under the impression that importing goods that copy a US trademark was prohibited. At any rate, it will be interesting to read about the conclusion of the case in 4 years after we've all forgotten about it.

Importing fakes of name-brand goods is prohibited. Importing a different product in the same color is not. For example, you can buy any Bare Knuckle model pickup with double-cream colored bobbins. But if they made a near exact copy of a Super Distortion and sold it in a DiMarzio labeled box, that would be illegal.

 

[Oldmanmetalhead]

This has very little to do with my buying choices, so I will just sit by and watch.

Could mean a lot of sales here

 

[Inflames626]

Suddenly everyone on the thread is a lawyer.

 

[Mincer]

Could mean a lot of sales here

It could, but not my personal choices in colors. I like pickup covers or basic black.

 

[RanchManSandy]

The trademark was only valid in the U.S., so foreign pickup winders could make double-cream all day long. I don't know if B.C. Rich got their pickups from an overseas source, but that would be one way to get around it.

The other part was the pole pieces. Originally, I believe DiMarzio's claim included double rows of hex/allen heads and standard row of screws/row of slugs. But it doesn't include blades or other unconventional pole piece arrangements, like 3x3 or dual rows of screws. For example, I believe it would be perfectly fine if Duncan made a double-cream Parallel Axis.

I don't know about BC Rich, but Carvin sold double-cream humbuckers for decades and I think they got away with it because they did that weird 12 pole piece per bobbin thing. There was no confusing them with a dimarzio.

 

[beaubrummels]

Suddenly everyone on the thread is a lawyer.

FWIW as for me, no I'm not a lawyer, I'm an artist and musician. But I am just speaking from my experiences. I have several entities (web sites and business names/logos) that I've held U.S. trademarks on and defended since 1997, I hold copyrights in the U.S. on more than several dozen sound recordings, songs and compositions dating since the 1980's, and I have a couple patents, in the U.S. and internationally, so what I've learned was from IP attorneys and the back and forth with the patent and copyright offices in the U.S. No, I don't know everything, on international laws I have much less information, and I can err on specific detailed points of law (they do keep changing them), but the parts I do know came from those hard knocks. If someone has more detailed/updated information or corrections, hey, that's what forum discussion is for.

 

[Ascension]

While I don't care enough about the issue to write an essay on a public internet forum during work hours, I think the term "PAF" has become generic enough that they will drop the trademark, I don't think they will drop the double cream trademark because at least in my eye, they have defended it well enough that no one else has tried with any success to use it. In all my years of looking at guitars, I have only ever seen in person a single double cream pickup that wasn't DiMarzio, and that was an actual PAF.

They could defend it quite a bit just off the grounds that for the longest time you could 100% say any double cream double hex pickup was a Super Distortion, and that's still a pretty safe bet to make today.

Carvin Kiesel has always sold double Cream pickups. They would be a hard one to take on as Kiesel started as a amp and pickup company in 1946. They have always had cream pickups of different configurations so--. The Carvin M22 was only offered in double cream when it first came out in 1977. When did Dimarzio start again?

 

[larryguitar]

Carvin Kiesel has always sold double Cream pickups. They would be a hard one to take on as Kiesel started as a amp and pickup company in 1946. They have always had cream pickups of different configurations so--. The Carvin M22 was only offered in double cream when it first came out in 1977. When did Dimarzio start again?

I believe their 12 polepieces differentiated their pickups enough to make them distinctive from DMZ?

Larry

 

[jeremy]

yeah, i think thats the big difference. i have a double cream carvin pup downstairs. its ok, but not great. ill rewind it at some point

 

[Chistopher]

If we haven't established this to death already, the difference between a patent, a trademark, and a copyright is that filing a patent is usually of a greater detriment to society, a trademark is at best a minor inconvenience for society, and a copyright is a form of protection for an artist of their creative work.

 

[Mincer]

I believe their 12 polepieces differentiated their pickups enough to make them distinctive from DMZ?

Larry

And the mounting in the ring is different, isn't it? I never compared Carvin's shade of cream to DiMarzio, though.

 

[larryguitar]

And the mounting in the ring is different, isn't it? I never compared Carvin's shade of cream to DiMarzio, though.

Yes, they're similar to Schallers in using two screws on one side and a single screw on the other, giving control of the 'tilt' of the pickup (which actually makes a lot of sense, IMHO.)

Larry

 

[Clint 55]

If we haven't established this to death already, the difference between a patent, a trademark, and a copyright is that filing a patent is usually of a greater detriment to society, a trademark is at best a minor inconvenience for society, and a copyright is a form of protection for an artist of their creative work.

 

[beaubrummels]

If we haven't established this to death already, the difference between a patent, a trademark, and a copyright is that filing a patent is usually of a greater detriment to society, a trademark is at best a minor inconvenience for society, and a copyright is a form of protection for an artist of their creative work.

You're bring sarcastic, right?

 

[Inflames626]

Yes, they're similar to Schallers in using two screws on one side and a single screw on the other, giving control of the 'tilt' of the pickup (which actually makes a lot of sense, IMHO.)

Larry

As far as I know, Schaller pickups are no longer made. Might want to fact check me on this. Always wanted to try them since their bridges are so good.

 

[ICTGoober]

As far as I know, Schaller pickups are no longer made. Might want to fact check me on this

Schaller pickups were made by Shadow during the 80's and 90's. Don't know about these days...

 

[ICTGoober]

Patents are renewable. You just renew..

Patents are usually issued for 17 years. A renewal of another 17 years is allowed. After that - no dice. That's one of the reasons DuPont stopped making R-12 refrigerant, and patented R-22.... And so on.

 

[beaubrummels]

Patents are usually issued for 17 years. A renewal of another 17 years is allowed. After that - no dice. That's one of the reasons DuPont stopped making R-12 refrigerant, and patented R-22.... And so on.

Yeah, there are ways around it, like filing an extension or adding to your own patent in a small but novel way, sufficient to retain protection. Depends on when it was originally filed whether it's 17 or 20, etc.