Gibson Les Paul Pickups - To Cover or Not To Cover

[Leon Richards]

Hi Everyone,
Newby to the forum and I am wanting feedback (excuse the pun) whether to keep upgraded pickups in a Gibson Les Paul Custom covered with the Gibson covers or uncovered.
Being a novice at this, I am not even sure covering is an option with some pickups.
Hopefully you all can relay any experiences whether positive or negative on how this effected overall tone, output and if there is a way of compensating for covers.
Thanks

 

[GuitarDoc]

Metal covers seem to have an affect on the tone, attenuating some of the highest frequencies. I've never done any studies on just how much effect they have but it is very slight. It's obviously a personal preference because some people like what it does to the tone. Some people like what a 250k pot does to the tone vs a 500k pot. It can also reduce microphonics/squealing/feedback. The biggest effect of covers on pups is esthetics.

I've never been bothered by any effect of covers except esthetics...sometime a pup just "fits" better in the overall look with plain black bobbins (or cream, or zebra, or pink, or....). Sometimes you may need the look of nickel or chrome or gold.

Just about any pup can be covered.

 

[GuitarStv]

I believe there's a slight change in tone, specifically on the higher frequencies. My preference is for an uncovered neck and covered bridge humbuckers.

 

[beaubrummels]

IME covers attenuate the sizzle a little bit. Sometimes a good thing, like with Pearly Gates.

 

[Mincer]

I like covers, especially on Gibsons. I am not sure if I can hear the high frequencies affected, though. I just think it looks better (on a Gibson, not other humbucker guitars).

 

[DonP]

Hi Everyone,
Newby to the forum and I am wanting feedback (excuse the pun) whether to keep upgraded pickups in a Gibson Les Paul Custom covered with the Gibson covers or uncovered.
Being a novice at this, I am not even sure covering is an option with some pickups.
Hopefully you all can relay any experiences whether positive or negative on how this effected overall tone, output and if there is a way of compensating for covers.
Thanks

I don't hear an issue with the tone or output. For me, it's a "looks" question.

On a Custom, I like the looks of gold covers.

On a Burst, I like the looks of double whites, covered, zebras, then double black in that order.

 

[Artie]

I like covers, especially on Gibsons. I am not sure if I can hear the high frequencies affected, though. I just think it looks better (on a Gibson, not other humbucker guitars).

I might go a step farther, and say that I think they look good on any guitar that came that way.

 

[LRS]

I don't hear an issue with the tone or output. For me, it's a "looks" question.

On a Custom, I like the looks of gold covers.

On a Burst, I like the looks of double whites, covered, zebras, then double black in that order.

^^^ what he said. Other than the double whites, precisely that ;-)

 

[freefrog]

There's a measurable effect of covers on tone, mainly due to Foucault currents (eddie currents) BUT it depends on...
- the composition + thickness of covers,
-the rig used and its settings,
-how the player deals with its ears and sensations...
.... etc.

If the dulling effect is too present, higher resistance pots should help to mitigate the issue.

If pickups are set high under the strings, covers are useful to prevent a high E string stuck under the top of the bobbins (which is a good way to kill a pickup) but a covered pickup can start to squeal if the assembly is loose... In which case a bead of silicon between pickups and cover might help.

Non limitative list of random thoughts.

IOW, there's no rule with covers, IME and IMHO. Try by yourself and keep what makes you happy.

 

[Aceman]

The physics of covers not withstanding, I think that consensus is fairly stated:

IF it impacts the tone, it is in a VERY SMALL way, at best.
Potting is important and will likely reduce the chance of feedback/howl/microphonics greatly if not completely
It is primarily an aesthetic decision, unless you have "those kind of ears"

That said - a 3 pickup LP style with those gold bricks is sexy! I generally prefer uncovered, but do have a few with them. I can't tell the difference in sound.

 

[freefrog]

To illlustrate a bit my previous answer, I share below a pic translating the electrically measured effect of a cover on a given Gibson type humbucker. The difference is clearer than in other tests on such a linear chart with vertical increments of 0.5dB (and it's not even about a "bad" cover, too thick or containing too much copper)...



One problem that my friend luthier has noticed with such parts years ago was sourcing, exactly like with magnets: some sellers appear(ed) to provide parts from random / variable / "dubious" origins albeit cosmetically similar at first glance (unless they are/were themselves victims of their own suppliers).

Now, a lucky player could certainly deal with dozens of pickups covers in his musical life without ever encoutering a "bad" one... Or without detecting the difference because of "secondary" parameters masking it. Hence my advice about personal experience as the only way to decide, IMHO and IME.

 

[jeremy]

so why does the cover seem to effect one coil so much more than the other?

 

[pskorz]

Hi Everyone,
Newby to the forum and I am wanting feedback (excuse the pun) whether to keep upgraded pickups in a Gibson Les Paul Custom covered with the Gibson covers or uncovered.
Being a novice at this, I am not even sure covering is an option with some pickups.
Hopefully you all can relay any experiences whether positive or negative on how this effected overall tone, output and if there is a way of compensating for covers.
Thanks

Your ears will dictate if you notice much sonic difference.

if you are asking about UNcovering pickups, that’s relatively easy to do. Main worry IMO is whether there’ll be any, only a little, or a great amount of wax surrounding the newly exposed pickups.

if you are asking about applying a cover to a pickup, the most crucial factor is getting a cover that fits the pickup, and that’ll line up perfectly with the screw pole pieces.

 

[Securb]

If you need a computer to analyze the frequencies do you think the average ear will be able to hear a significant difference?

 

[freefrog]

so why does the cover seem to effect one coil so much more than the other?

Because the slugs coil is buried under the cover while the screws are protuding through it.

A cover potentially changes the interaction between coils. That's one of the reasons why lowering a tone pot doesn't do exactly the same than putting a cover.

If you need a computer to analyze the frequencies do you think the average ear will be able to hear a significant difference?

Firstly, I don' "need" a computer: here, we use lab gear to objectivate what we notice musically.

Secondly, my answer is: yes. Absolutely.

Although a difference of resonant peak is far to reveal all the tonal features of a pickup, it always shapes the tone to some extent.

I could have produced the same kind of curves with the same pickup played and its whole range frequency response recorded twice. I've that somewhere in my archives. But it would have created an opportunity to attribute the difference to a supposedly inconsistent playing. :-D

While I'm at it: the "impulse response" capture shows that covers don't affect only the frequency response but also the perceived "compression". That's another one of the reasons why lowering a tone pot won't exactly mimic the effect of a cover.

SIDE NOTE - I've shared the mentioned screenshot to help and not to argue. My sentences just above are to take accordingly: as mere attempts to clarify the questions evoked.

 

[Lucius Paisley]

To illlustrate a bit my previous answer, I share below a pic translating the electrically measured effect of a cover on a given Gibson type humbucker. The difference is clearer than in other tests on such a linear chart with vertical increments of 0.5dB (and it's not even about a "bad" cover, too thick or containing too much copper)...



One problem that my friend luthier has noticed with such parts years ago was sourcing, exactly like with magnets: some sellers appear(ed) to provide parts from random / variable / "dubious" origins albeit cosmetically similar at first glance (unless they are/were themselves victims of their own suppliers).

Now, a lucky player could certainly deal with dozens of pickups covers in his musical life without ever encoutering a "bad" one... Or without detecting the difference because of "secondary" parameters masking it. Hence my advice about personal experience as the only way to decide, IMHO and IME.

So what am I looking at exactly? What's going on at 7000Hz/17dB compared to 20000Hz/8dB?

 

[AlexR]

If you need a computer to analyze the frequencies do you think the average ear will be able to hear a significant difference?

The reason these sort of tests are done is so the doubters don't say 'oh well thats just you wanting it to make (or not) a difference by hearing what you want to hear' - surely you're aware of the purpose of science after all.

You can do side by side aural comparisons too (like the Bareknuckle Pickups one), and they also confirm a noticeable difference side-by-side even with the better quality covers.

 

[Aceman]

The Just-Noticeable-Difference for a human is around 1db (varies by pitch...) assuming "normal" hearing. So on that curve, there is probably no difference perceived out until 4k or so.

There is a big difference in the slugs at the end vs others. But those three are pretty close. Probably indistinguishable.

And those pitches out at 18k+ could be killed by a cable, a speaker cone, or whatever.

 

[freefrog]

So what am I looking at exactly? What's going on at 7000Hz/17dB compared to 20000Hz/8dB?

Any magnetic guitar pickup is moslty a LRC resonant filter. You are seeing the "resonant peaks" (resonant frequencies) of each coil (both being normally in series), with or without cover.

Resonant peaks shape the upper harmonic response of such transducer. 40 years ago, people like Larry DiMarzio explained that resonant frequencies set the "voice" of pickups. That's why Seymour has mentioned resonant frequencies in his specs during decades.

There's thousands of similar pics in my archives, thousands or comparable tests done by other people elsewhere on the web. The only difference is that lab routine here doesn't use an "integrator" circuit.

Here is the kind of link that I use to share after such posts: http://www.buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/

The Just-Noticeable-Difference for a human is around 1db (varies by pitch...) assuming "normal" hearing. So on that curve, there is probably no difference perceived out until 4k or so.

There is a big difference in the slugs at the end vs others. But those three are pretty close. Probably indistinguishable.

And those pitches out at 18k+ could be killed by a cable, a speaker cone, or whatever.

This test has purposedly been done to focus on upper harmonics but yes, covers affect mainly high harmonics... and perceived "compression" on fundamental frequencies as suggested by my former precision about the impulse response screen.

The maximal difference in the Rz measurement is of a bit more than 1dB for screws and 1.5dB to 4dB from Rz to 20khz for slugs... and as previously explained, it's not even due to a bad cover.

These differences in upper register will be heard or not according to the amount of gain used, amp and its cab(s) etc.

I mean that if the guitar is plugged in a Jazz Chorus or Fender Twin with bright switch enabled, the difference will be much more obvious than through a Metal Zone with gain full up. :-D

More later if time permits.


NOTE - I live in Europe. It's 7:10 AM here. My previous answer has been posted around 2AM, while I couldn't sleep and wanted to change my mind by sharing free info with this forum (reasons : 2 people in my family are seriously hill and I wait results to know if I've been contaminated myself)...

These private infos are meant to put in perspective my contributions in this thread (if not their "tone": I hope it's not the case since I always try to stay polite and zen in my posts). It also states why I might stay silent for a while - or definitively, who knows? "LOL".

 

[Lucius Paisley]

NOTE - I live in Europe. It's 7:10 AM here. My previous answer has been posted around 2AM, while I couldn't sleep and wanted to change my mind by sharing free info with this forum (reasons : 2 people in my family are seriously hill and I wait results to know if I've been contaminated myself)...

These private infos are meant to put in perspective my contributions in this thread (if not their "tone": I hope it's not the case since I always try to stay polite and zen in my posts). It also states why I might stay silent for a while - or definitively, who knows? "LOL".[/QUOTE]

You're doing pretty with so much on your plate. F' this virus.