Gibson product ideas.

Re: Gibson product ideas.

Personally, I've played so many poor playing Gibson's that I rarely pick them up any more and when I do, it seems that less than 25% are worth the time-

Certainly they must start there, poor playing instruments is inexcusable and must stop. Even a $99 instrument should be playable. For anything over 200 bucks in my opinion a guitar shouldn't leave the factory without a decent setup, regardless of where it is made or by who. At Gibson's prices they should be exceptional playing instruments leaving the factory. But in many ways quality problems are easier to solve than market problems. Well established ways of determining weaknesses and building in quality exist (what you can't do is inspect in quality).

As for the minor blemishes and other complaints the problem I perceive is a marketing issue. Gibson mass produces guitars by factory workers and then prices them like they are custom built by a skilled luthier. Gibson switched from cost based pricing to market based pricing years ago, but they priced them for a market they aren't in. They don't built custom pieces of auditory and visual art, they build mass produced guitars. While the M2 and Zero series are in my opinion a fair price, many of the high end instruments are priced too high for a mass produced instrument. If they don't address this I think they will slide in to more and more of a niche market as the nostalgia of the brand becomes less relevant with subsequent generations of guitar players.

I still see them as having a viable guitar making business, but with time if they don't change I think they'll become less relevant. Right now their problem as I see it though is a failure to achieve diversification that resulted in severe financial overreach. Even without the quality issues they would still be drowning in debt. Going from 300 million in revenue to 1.3 billion through acquisitions in 5 years like Gibson did is a recipe for disaster. There must have been a lot of hubris for everyone to think they would succeed.
 
Re: Gibson product ideas.

They need to cut costs by simplifying the lineup to bring prices down. The bonus is it simplifies marketing. Make 3 Les Pauls: Standard, Classic (standard, but plain top), and Studio. Each with 50's or 60's necks. If you want to get really simple, make the studio in black only and steal Ford's "you can get it in any colour you want, as long as it's black" line.

Make 1 SG, 1 V, 1 Explorer, 1 Firebird, all with 60's necks only.

From a non-business perspective, I'd also love to see a neck-thru SG as it eliminates the problem of the weak neck joint. But I think wacky one-off designs are a big part of what got them in this mess. Leave the experimental stuff to Epiphone. If they strike gold with a design, then make a Gibson version.

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Re: Gibson product ideas.

took a trip to the music store this afternoon...two things:
played a Sterling JP-150...the best guitar I have played in a long time...music store dude said the same thing...and he said it came out of the box set up perfectly...unlike most of the Gibsons they receive;
He also said Gibson just told them they had to up their buy from $175k to $220k...owner is considering dropping Gibson and has already started to stock alternatives...most customers aren't buying the icon BS anymore...he also said that he knows of five dealerships that have dropped Gibson/Epiphone recently because of this shoving inventory down on them and the lackluster interest of the new customer attitude...
product ideas...that does not seem to be the problem...
 
Re: Gibson product ideas.

Found a nice little independent dealer in Fayetteville, NC kast week... Small city, but Fort Brag is down the street, so lots of cash for cars and guitars...

What's interesting is they no longer cary Fender or Gibson... Recently considered bringing Epi back, but decided they were better off with PRS and Ibi...

Their prod mix makes total sense when dealers can't afford F and G. But it left me feeling nostalgic for the days when everyone had Teles Strats, Sgs and LPs on the walls.

But that really is nostalgia... In the Asian guitar thread I already admited that my current favorites cross 5 brands and think about international musicians who may never have access to Gibson.

So even with the perfect guitar and pricepoint, Gibson's got a lot of work ahead to reestablish mindshare.

But very competitive models certainly can't hurt.

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Re: Gibson product ideas.

In a small town there was a small mom and pop store run by an older gentleman. He was an old country and western guitarist. He has since past on but I really should have spent more time in his shop and listened to what he had to say more. However, he stocked nothing but cheapo gear. Cheap Asian made guitars and solid state generic amps. But he could diagnose an old Fender amp with a problem in 5 minutes and set up a tele to play and sound amazing. He carried individual strings so you could make up custom sets. He charged a fair price for everything and would take a check or even an IOU. One time I asked him why he didn't stock Fender or Gibson. He became a little pissed and told me that he was an exclusive Fender dealer back when he lived in Colorado many years ago. He knew Leo personally. He was a Fender dealer from the very beginning. Then during the 70s Fender's owners pulled the rug out from under him. They told him he was too small of an operation to be a Fender dealer anymore. Crap like that hasn't helped Fender and Gibson.
 
Re: Gibson product ideas.

The Moderne is a slab of mahogany with a set neck that requires about 20 seconds xtra time on the computer saw. $2000 is a bit pricey.
 
Re: Gibson product ideas.

When touring the now-closed Gibson plant in Memphis, I was amazed at how few human hands touched the guitar.

Doesnt surprise me. But the propaganda (and pricing) strongly suggests that they are nearly hand crafted..
 
Re: Gibson product ideas.

Doesnt surprise me. But the propaganda (and pricing) strongly suggests that they are nearly hand crafted..

The most human interaction was scraping the binding after painting. This was still done entirely by hand.
 
Re: Gibson product ideas.

Ah another "airhead"...

I live in Wichita - the Air Capitol. There have been over 100 airplane makers through the century located here. This town IS the history of American aviation industry. Boeing, Cessna, Beechcraft, LearJet and more have made their homes here. 6 out of 10 privately owned airplanes flying were built HERE. If you want a corporate jet - you come to Wichita. Need a bomber? Wichita. Need flight instruction or factory training for your A&P ticket? Wichita. Hell, even Airbus was smart enough to take advantage of the talent pool in this town and opened an engineering building in downtown Wichita with a bunch of CATIA jockeys designing airplane parts and tooling for the European plane industry.

I say again, this town IS aviation. Little kids grow up knowing what the plane is above their heads, and call them out correctly. My industrial training was in aviation machining and fabrication. For decades I worked 2 jobs.... by day, guitar repairman & builder, by night, tool and die maker at Beechcraft, Cessna, or Boeing. So, yeah - come stay a week and I'll immerse you in enough "air" to satisfy you.
 
Re: Gibson product ideas.

So, yeah - come stay a week and I'll immerse you in enough "air" to satisfy you.
Guitars and airplanes? You had me at Wichita!

Sounds like a wonderful opportunity and I would be happy to return the favor in Raleigh Durham- but it's hot and humid and we don't have much aviation going on (although the Honda light jets are coming on line down the road in Greensboro).

Thanks for the invite and it's to have an online buddy who knows what an A&P ticket and a truss rod are;)
 
Re: Gibson product ideas.

Gibson switched from cost based pricing to market based pricing years ago, but they priced them for a market they aren't in. ...
Mxaniac, we wrote an entire series on the challenges (and opportunities) that Gibson faces, but you summed up the biggest problem in a sentence-
  • Their value points might have worked at a more competitive price
  • Their quality issues would likely have been rectified if they were still a boutique level shop

Practically all of their customer-centric opportunities require a choice- completitive mass production or boutique quality and pricing- It would be very hard for them to do both well until they work through these issues.
 
Re: Gibson product ideas.

Gibson product idea? How about any great sounding electric guitar that is ready to plug and play off the rack and doesn't require an executive salary to buy.
 
Re: Gibson product ideas.

Gibson product idea? How about any great sounding electric guitar that is ready to plug and play off the rack and doesn't require an executive salary to buy.

This would be great, but I'd bet a lot of Gibsons (most) are sold to people who don't know the difference. I have several students with $4k+ Gibsons that are in horrible condition. I tell them I can do some small adjustments (for free) to make it play better, but they are *used to* the horrible setup, or are afraid that any adjustments to the neck or bridge will take it 'out of spec'.

Really.

This is what Gibson and some internet forums do. People buy a guitar, pay a lot, and think that what they got is 'the best'. They don't want to hear it isn't. Rock n Roll dreams dashed.
 
Re: Gibson product ideas.

This would be great, but I'd bet a lot of Gibsons (most) are sold to people who don't know the difference. I have several students with $4k+ Gibsons that are in horrible condition. I tell them I can do some small adjustments (for free) to make it play better, but they are *used to* the horrible setup, or are afraid that any adjustments to the neck or bridge will take it 'out of spec'.

Really.

This is what Gibson and some internet forums do. People buy a guitar, pay a lot, and think that what they got is 'the best'. They don't want to hear it isn't. Rock n Roll dreams dashed.

Wow. Don't intonate it, it might void the warranty.
 
Re: Gibson product ideas.

IMHO, Gibson desperately needs two separate lines of their 5 iconic solidbody guitars (LP, SG, FB, MM, EXP): Traditional and Modern.

Traditional: just as the name suggests, the same thing you can buy today.

Modern: straight string pull headstock, roller bridge, stop piece with fine tuners, self-lubricating or roller nut, Epiphone headstock angle with reinforcing graphite rods in the joint.

10 guitars, 5 for each line, with a respectable choice of finishes. Stop making 30 different variations of each model.

You can already get a straight string pull headstock from them, as well as the fine tune stop piece, but they are Custom Shop options.
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Re: Gibson product ideas.

Holy ******, that’s ugly. I’m sorry if it’s yours, but :chairfall
 
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Re: Gibson product ideas.

Gibson product idea? How about any great sounding electric guitar that is ready to plug and play off the rack and doesn't require an executive salary to buy.

Yeah, I bought my Explorer back in December. I’m a secretary.
 
Re: Gibson product ideas.

You can already get a straight string pull headstock from them, as well as the fine tune stop piece, but they are Custom Shop options.
64784c764fa29378f763366b1e85d1a6.jpg

To be honest the new Gibson adjustable zero fret solves the angle issue, it's just no one likes them either because it's not traditional or because they came on cheap Asian guitars back in the day. In my opinion, the new HP 2 line of guitars is both a great concept and visually attractive:

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The issue is in the execution, Gibson's lack of quality control and insane pricing combining with Gibson's ranking reputation for all their attempts at modern ideas makes for a poorly selling instrument. With the advent of the internet and a wider range of guitar companies to choose from, boosting your prices to convince the world that you sell a superior product just isn't cutting it any more. If the HP 2 lines of guitars cost half as much and had QC that was even on par with the rest of the market, these things would fly off the shelves as soon as word got out about them.

Giving customers choices of pickups would also be a neat idea, one that I would be willing to pay a bit more for. Gibson gets a deal with one or more pickup companies and allows the customers to converse with someone who actually knows what they are talking about, advising them based on what bands or specific tones the customer wants, and then includes those pickups in the guitar they bought. That might even help our forum participation around here. This would both increase customer satisfaction due to a better product and the warm fuzzy feeling of getting a product they think is better tuned to them and there needs, as well as less of a need to sell whatever pickups Gibson feels like selling these days.
 
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