Gibson Quality Control - exposed

[Lewguitar]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

I always tell anyone looking for a specific model of a new guitar to go to every music store within 50 miles of your home, play every single one you can find, and then go back and buy the best one.

It's not because of a lack of quality control...it's because every guitar is unique and if you want a "magic" one (one that's lively and resonant and plays great) that's the way to find it.

It's also why I've always thought it was dangerous to special order a unique or personalized guitar...you don't get the pick of the litter.

Lew

 

[ErikH]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

I strongly believe that the biggest difference between one les paul and the next is the pickups. The dimensions are the same, the woods and finish are the same, but they come with a variety of very different sounding pickups.

Also, notice that nowhere in that article is Seth Lover mentioned.

I have to disagree. Pickups are not what make the biggest difference. The woods and finish are not 100% the same. Same type, yes, but not totally the same. One batch of mahogany could be wonderful and have the best balance while the next batch is total crap and is horrible for a solid body guitar. Read Lew's reply. He sums it up.

And like the guy said, he tried several pickups to try and save the guitar with no success so the pickups were obviously not much of a factor.

 

[big_black]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

After reading this aritcle I am sceptical of the existence of "Mr. X". These are few points I can out of it with after a quich scanning.

- I have NEVER heard of a real LP being shot with poly. I have heard the lower end modles like The Paul and The SG were, but I have never held one, so I don't know. I find it hard to believe even in the Norlin years they used poly on the real stuff.

- The "interviewer" is constanly guiding the Mr. X back to the Gibon issue.

- The difference between an "excellent" guitar and a "decent" guitar is totally subjective IMO. The difference between a bad guitar and an excellent is more obvious, but that is somewhat subjective too. People hear different things, want different things, and will accept different flaws in a guitar.

 

[big_black]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

I strongly believe that the biggest difference between one les paul and the next is the pickups. The dimensions are the same, the woods and finish are the same, but they come with a variety of very different sounding pickups.

Sorry, but I STRONGLY disagree with that concept The biggest difference between any two guitars is that they are not the same guitar.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

It's also why I've always thought it was dangerous to special order a unique or personalized guitar...you don't get the pick of the litter.

Good point. Unfortunately, leftys like myself are often stuck with having to special order - either that or settle for something that's less than what we want. Case in point: my Ibanez Artcore that's on order. I am less than impressed with the Epiphone Dots I've tried, but if I wanted one in a lefty I could have it tomorrow. On the other hand, every Artcore I've tried (all right-hand) has been outstanding, and I can't find fault with anything on the guitar. Unfortunately, getting a lefty Artcore where I live takes a very long time.

 

[theboatcandream]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

Sorry, but I STRONGLY disagree with that concept The biggest difference between any two guitars is that they are not the same guitar.

Let's say you get one guitar with a mahogany neck and body, and high output gibson ceramic pickups. Then you get another guitar with a mahogany neck and body, and high output gibson ceramic pickups. Then you get a guitar with a maple neck, poplar body, and fender single coils.


Now, all three guitars are different guitars, but can you guess which two will sound very similar and which one will sound different? Remember, all three guitars are not the same guitar.

 

[shredaholic]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

Let's say you get one guitar with a mahogany neck and body, and high output gibson ceramic pickups. Then you get another guitar with a mahogany neck and body, and high output gibson ceramic pickups. Then you get a guitar with a maple neck, poplar body, and fender single coils.


Now, all three guitars are different guitars, but can you guess which two will sound very similar and which one will sound different? Remember, all three guitars are not the same guitar.

you make a good point, but HOW they sound different is another matter. the first two will closer than the other in terms of gain, compression, warmth, but another person might not be looking for that - they may be after a vibe that isnt as quanitfiable

 

[big_black]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

Let's say you get one guitar with a mahogany neck and body, and high output gibson ceramic pickups. Then you get another guitar with a mahogany neck and body, and high output gibson ceramic pickups. Then you get a guitar with a maple neck, poplar body, and fender single coils.


Now, all three guitars are different guitars, but can you guess which two will sound very similar and which one will sound different? Remember, all three guitars are not the same guitar.

My guess is the first and third...did I win?

 

[big_black]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

When I'm buying a guitar, the pickups are the last aspect I evaluate...unless they are Duncans.

 

[ledzepp29]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

Were there even customs in 55?

yep the les paul custom started in 1954 with the 'black beauty' 1 p90 and one alnico neck pickup. I think 55 or 56 is the last year for that model, then they used humbuckers. That is my favorite LP custom though, craig ross from lenny kravitz has a 55 and its gorgeous and sounds amazing.

 

[theboatcandream]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

you make a good point, but HOW they sound different is another matter. the first two will closer than the other in terms of gain, compression, warmth, but another person might not be looking for that - they may be after a vibe that isnt as quanitfiable

There are only so many characteristics to a soundwave. Yes, there will be differences between the two seemingly identical models. Setup, craftmenship, thickness of the finish, age of the pickups, mineral content of the wood, are all factors.

 

[theboatcandream]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

When I'm buying a guitar, the pickups are the last aspect I evaluate...unless they are Duncans.

I agree, because you can always change the pickups. But when I'm evaluating the sound plugged in, the pickups are the first thing in my mind when I'm understanding why the guitar sounds the way it does.

 

[Jazz Rock]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

I quite agree that this article is a gold mine to know what to pay attention to when you are selecting a guitar, whatever model it is.

But the gibson related stuff doesn't really offer more info than what I already read on the forum, just another bad experience with the brand. I'd quite like to land a hand on this Les Paul book though.

This, plus the info collected in the Epi LP and tonewoods thread, which was a great thread, Gibson isn't really in my book nowadays. However, I still find that there is something magical about the Pauls... Too tough!!!

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

Let's say you get one guitar with a mahogany neck and body, and high output gibson ceramic pickups. Then you get another guitar with a mahogany neck and body, and high output gibson ceramic pickups. Then you get a guitar with a maple neck, poplar body, and fender single coils.

Now, all three guitars are different guitars, but can you guess which two will sound very similar and which one will sound different? Remember, all three guitars are not the same guitar.

Sure, the two mahogany guitars will sound similar. They'll be basically of the same 'food group'. But if one is light and the other is heavy, the difference in tone between the two can be striking. If you're really into tone, and plan to play that guitar for countless hours onstage and on recordings, then the small differences are EVERYTHING.

I'm a firm believer that you have to get the wood sounding like you want before you mess with anything else. Every time I've let a guitar go, it's been because it's basic tonality has been wrong, and no amount of pickup tomfoolery would ever fix that. A classic example was the 76 strat I had. The perfect neck, and it looked amazing in that 'dragged across stages for 30 years' way. But I just couldn't gig it, as the upper midrange tone was too forceful and fatiguing. Great for solos and nothing else.

Of course, there's such a thing as personal preference. I like lightweight, warm sounding guitars and warm sounding alnico pickups. I have friends who love brighter guitars, and therefore are happy with heavier ones than I would pick. Are their guitars 'worse' -only to me. They're perfectly happy.

That guy's article is dead on the money, as far as all his advice on choosing a guitar for tone goes. There's no substitute for trying as many guitars as you can, figuring out what you like (as opposed to what people tell you is right), and then making a choice. nowadays, I can walk into a store, pick up a guitar, play it unplugged and know right away if it's for me.

 

[madaxeman]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

heritage- the only way

 

[TheGZeus]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

nice story.....sort of a bash to gibsons though.

Ya THINK?!?!?!?

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

I agree with everything in the article. Another issue is the pickups and the quality of the initial setup.

My personal philosophy has been to buy and sell guitars, and hang onto the 'cream of the crop' pieces, which stand head and shoulders above the average. It's a bad practice to settle with a guitar, and try every known way of modding it to your perfection. I take any new guitar I get and perform a perfect setup, listen to the stock pickups, then move toward my idea of 'perfect' pickups. If I'm not jumping for joy, that sucker is GONE! It's a big dilemma when you love the look and feel of it, but something else is holding it back. I only keep the ones that blow me away in every way.

All the Gibson bashing is basically an internet mind virus, as a backlash against Gibson's shrewd business practices. Like this article pointed out, it's not a Gibson issue, it's just the issue of all that is involved in a guitar being considered a 'Gem.' It's a numbers game, since we're talking about wood being shaped by humans. When everything falls together magically, it's a gem, but only if the player is tonally astute enough to even realize it.

One funny part of the interview was when they mentioned "Joe and Brad" from Aerosmith, driving the Gibson people crazy for cherry picking at the factory.
To me, it sounds like my two tone heroes doing exactly what I'd do if I were them!!!

 

[marvar]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

All I can say is- whenever I'm shopping for another guitar, I NEVER plug it into an amp when trying it out- it freaks the salesmen out because they always say "want to hear it?" Well, I can listen for what I want to hear without an amp. I play it and listen for the resonance and tone. If ,and how it rings through my body. I can always put whatever pickups I think it needs, and I can set it up to my preferences. I must say that I do prefer Gibsons, and have played them since I first took up the guitar. (about 40 years ago!)

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

Cheese's guitarist never had a harmonica player. :smack:

I love that guy whose first name rhymes with Derek and last name rhymes with Frampton! :laugh2:

 

[LesStrat]

Re: Gibson Quality Control - exposed

Let's say you get one guitar with a mahogany neck and body, and high output gibson ceramic pickups. Then you get another guitar with a mahogany neck and body, and high output gibson ceramic pickups. Then you get a guitar with a maple neck, poplar body, and fender single coils.


Now, all three guitars are different guitars, but can you guess which two will sound very similar and which one will sound different? Remember, all three guitars are not the same guitar.

"One of these things is not like the other. Two of these things are kind of the same..."

Two words:

Buy Heritage.