Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

JimmyQ

JimmyQ

New member
Hi All,

I recently acquired a Gibson SG '61 Reissue, which I'm totally loving at the moment!

However, I have a small issue in that the sustain seems to die off fairly quickly. Played through an amp, some of the strings don't seem to ring out as long as I would usually expect (although my experience is mostly with LP's, so I'm not sure what to expect!).

I've done the obvious, like changing the strings, re-setting the action to ensure the strings aren't fretting out and adjusting the pickup height. The pickups sounds really nice and clear through the clean channel, so I think the height is ok. The strings certainly arent excessively high above the pickups.

Acoustically it sounds great, with no noticable decay in the notes ringing out.

So, my thoughts are that it may be the pickups. This guitar was built in 1992, so it has got a realy 'worn in' feel to it, and it also still has it's stock pickups (A Gibson 'The Original HB-R' in the neck, and a Gibson 'Bill Lawrence' Patent # bucker in the bridge). Could the aging pickups be the cause of this, if the magnets were becomming weaker? Perhaps 15 years is pushing it a bit for these pickups... It still has stock pots and wiring too...

It also has a Kahler Pro trem fitted, with a locking nut, so that could be the cause too, maybe...

Any thoughts or suggestions from any of you guys with experience in this kind of stuff would be very gratefully received. I don't really want to spend money swapping out the pickups, particularly since I'm not even sure if they are what is causing the problem!

... then again, a set of 59's might be fun if a pup swap is required!

Best Wishes
Jim :)
 
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Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

Most magnets retain their strength for hundreds of years, unless you hit them with a hammer or something...so I doubt your pickups are getting noticably 'weaker.'

An SG is a really thin piece of wood to begin with...routing it out to put a Kahler double-locking tremolo reduced it to a whole lot less wood. I'd be willing to bet that's what's killing your sustain...you mentioned being used to Les Pauls, which are substantially thicker and heavier and that's why people tend to notice more sustain in them...more wood to vibrate.

I'd never do it to MY Gibson but I'd like to see pix of your SG with the Kahler if you've got some...probably looks unique at least.
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

how could some1 bastardize a 61 resissue SG with a kahler trem and locking nut....the thought makes me shudder, lol

anyways, i 2nd empty pockets prediction that that is the cause of your problems
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

Yeah, fitting a trem to '61 reissue isn't my idea of a 'good thing' either. However, on the plus side, thats probably one of the reasons why I got it so cheap! Even with the slight lack of sustain, it still plays great and has soaked up a lot of mojo over the years...

It does look totally cool, and the heavier trem block balances out the neck dive from the light body. Even though I'm not much of a trem user, it does sound great! I'll post some pics soon....

Interestingly, there isn't much wood routed out for the trem block, it's quite a small hole (relatively speaking). It's surprising that removing a small chunk of wood would have such an impact on overall sound. Perhaps the Kahler bridge dampens the strings a bit more than the stock tune-o-matic...

:)
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

I'm afraid I have to suspect blame on the Kahler, too.

Just play faster :)
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

uOpt said:
I'm afraid I have to suspect blame on the Kahler, too.

Just play faster :)
Click to expand...

I think Kahlers tend to be real tone and sustain suckers...that's probably your problem right there. Sorry...there's nothing you can do to make it better. Lew
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

My Epi Elitist SG's sustain is nowhere near as good as either one of my Les Pauls. It just has the normal Tunamatic, and stop tailpiece. If mine did sustain as well as my Les Pauls, I might have made it my main guitar.

I think there might be a slight a slight advantage (in the case of my SG) to upgrading to a better bridge, like posibly a Tonepros, but I think the real reason for the quick note decay is the thin body. I have a '62 Epi Melody Maker, that also has a thin body, and a great sound. It has a similar fast note decay.

I don't think you can really blame a Kahler for a normal SG characteristic. But I imagine it contributes to the problem.

Pete
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

Lewguitar said:
I think Kahlers tend to be real tone and sustain suckers...that's probably your problem right there. Sorry...there's nothing you can do to make it better. Lew
Click to expand...


Man,I popped that off here a while back & ****ed near got ran out of the village...
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

Empty Pockets said:
So are we gettin those pix of this Kahler'd SG?
Click to expand...

I'll take some pics this evening and post them, sorry to keep you waiting!

Thanks for all the info, I had a feeling that the Kahler may turn out to be the culprit. I'll have to adapt my playing a bit to compensate for the note decay, it'll be a good chance to expand my playing repertoire!

Thanks
Jim
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

Lewguitar said:
I think Kahlers tend to be real tone and sustain suckers...that's probably your problem right there. Sorry...there's nothing you can do to make it better. Lew
Click to expand...

if you want more sustain there is one solution....buy a really good compressor and crank it, lol. i just got my analogman bycomp and that thing can make any of my guitars sustain forever, lol.

im sure it will give you more than you have now but it will alter your sound a little
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

scottish said:
if you want more sustain there is one solution....buy a really good compressor and crank it, lol. i just got my analogman bycomp and that thing can make any of my guitars sustain forever, lol.
Click to expand...

That's a good suggestion!

I registered on the waiting list for an Analogman Bi-Comp about 2 years ago, and a while back I got the confirmation email to let me know I could order one whenever I'm ready.

I havent been able to justify spending that kind of money on a compressor, maybe this is the oppertunity!

Jim :)
 
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Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

Lewguitar said:
I think Kahlers tend to be real tone and sustain suckers...that's probably your problem right there. Sorry...there's nothing you can do to make it better. Lew
Click to expand...

I had an old Aria Pro II with a Kahler and you could hit a chord, go to work and come back and the thing would still be sustaining. The Kahler actually helped IMO. But that's more likely to be the guitar and the huge mass of wood as opposed to the SG which is most likely simply not enough wood with the Kahler to sustain very much. But hey, if it feels good that's what matters! Rock on

Stu
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

A buddy had an L6S that had been routed for a Kahler, he removed the Kahler and left the big, gaping hole. He loved that guitar. An L6S isn't much (if any) thicker than an SG...
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

I think the Kahler question is a little more complex than just "less sustain".

The original Kahler dampens things, but not everything the same. The high harmonics bleed off much faster than the low ones. The curve is very different from what you get if you have short sustain as a result of bad wood. There is quite a bit of sustain left in the sections that you use for very thick distorted (not crunchy) sound.

I have seen people say that the original Kahler sounds better than other tremolos.

But for clean, "pling" or crunchy it probably kills some useful harmonics too early.
 
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