Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

I don't think the cause of the loss of sustain it's the thin body. I have a '92 Gibson SG Special (ebony fretboard). The stock neck pickup is awesome. Sustains for days and it's super sweet, round and super myddy with the tone all the way down. Classic Gibson tone!
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

As promised, pic's of the trem'd SG 61 (apologies for the picture quality. my photography skills are not so great!);

sg11.jpg


sg22.jpg



The grain on this piece of wood is really nice. The photo's make it look like a bright cherry finish, but it's actually more like a deep wine red. The back of the neck is the most amazing translucent red, and just looks incredible, it almost glows! I guess good quality wood wasn't in such short supply back in 1992. The one piece body really adds to the effect, with no break in the grain...

I think that the Kahler trem makes the guitar look very cool and a bit different. I like guitars with a bit of character, which this one certainly has. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, the weight helps balance out the neck dive.

It would be nice to get the sustain back up and singing like it should be, but I'm beginning to wonder if that's going to be possible. I may have to put it down as 'one-of-those-things', and not let it bother me!

Jim

:)
 
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Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

Less mass means the wood in the SG is easier to get vibrating, and as a result I’ve found SGs are among the most acoustically loud solid bodies out there. They tend to resonate very well. Even my G400, while it’s not the greatest chunk of mahogany in the world, sure is loud. However, it’s the decreased mass that also causes faster note decay. This is all other things being equal, of course, and doesn’t mean that an SG can’t hold a note for a long time.

That Kahler unit looks like it utilizes the stock posts (or at least the bushings). If so, find yourself a tune-o-matic and see what happens. If things get better, you’ll know it’s the bridge. If not, chalk one up to physics.

Nice SG, BTW. I love the reissues... that small pick guard looks a bajillion times better than the big guards, and you couldn't have a more classic color combination.
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

That SG rocks man. The Kahler blows my mind, I'd like to take a closer look at it and figure out how it works.

One thing I didn't think of earlier is that lowering your pickups sometimes reduces sustain. You won't get as much output but you'll have less magnetic pull slowing your strings down as they vibrate...you could make up for the lower output by turning up your amp, which some people think sounds better anyway.
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

I may try stringing it with heavier guage strings. I play with 10's at the moment, perhaps 11's would give a little more beef...

Heavier guage strings on a trem seem like a good idea anyway, I would have thought that heavier strings may help with tuning stability...?

Jim
 
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Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

heavier guage strings help with everything. the only thing keeping me from setting my SG up with 12's is lack of money and transportation.
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

Trems usually kill the sustain more than fixed bridges. Kahlers, like Bigsbys or Floyds, do dramatically affect the tone of your instrument (depending on the guitar - that can be a good or a bad thing).
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

I always think about how to offset the problem. The issue is a thin guitar made of mahogany with brass roller saddles = a really dull and mellow attack.

However, since the Kahler lock still utilizes the guitar's nut, you can get a brighter material and cut it absolutely perfect, so the guitar rings like a bell. Maybe Tusq, bone, or even brass. Cut it just high enough that the strings are able to ring strong with low/medium action, and a fairly straight neck. Also, use brighter strings like Ernie Balls.
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

I dunno about string sizes larger than 010s on the high strings. Can get unplayable quickly.

But you can try light top heavy bottom, which has the high strings from a 010 set and the low strings from a 011 set. That gets the guitar moving on chords but still allows vibrato on the high strings.

Gearjoneser said:
However, since the Kahler lock still utilizes the guitar's nut, you can get a brighter material and cut it absolutely perfect, so the guitar rings like a bell. Maybe Tusq, bone, or even brass. Cut it just high enough that the strings are able to ring strong with low/medium action, and a fairly straight neck. Also, use brighter strings like Ernie Balls.
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I had a brass nut on a Les Paul once. Wouldn't recommend it.

What I would do if this is a real problem is:
  • Take Kahler off.
  • Mount a one-piece Gibson-wraparound style bridge for testing. Two more holes won't make it worse.
  • Make audio clips before/after and post on the forum :)
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

uOpt said:
I dunno about string sizes larger than 010s on the high strings. Can get unplayable quickly.
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I'm gonna have to disagree with this one big time. If you can't play heavy strings it's just because your fingers aren't strong enough. The more you play heavier strings, the stronger your fingers will get.

I mean, really. That's like saying nobody can bench press more than 350lbs... just because i can barely bench 100 right now doesn't mean i couldn't crack 300 with some training.
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

Empty Pockets said:
I'm gonna have to disagree with this one big time. If you can't play heavy strings it's just because your fingers aren't strong enough. The more you play heavier strings, the stronger your fingers will get.

I mean, really. That's like saying nobody can bench press more than 350lbs... just because i can barely bench 100 right now doesn't mean i couldn't crack 300 with some training.
Click to expand...

No matter how much I would practice, I will never bench 350lbs :)

My point is, above a certain string gauge it will only get more difficult but not sound better.

Of course you can play these things. All acoustic players do it. The question is whether it's worth it and whether the loss of vibrato is overall doing more damage to your tone.

I am also not convinced it solves the sustain problem on this guitar.
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

MikeS said:
Less mass means the wood in the SG is easier to get vibrating, and as a result I’ve found SGs are among the most acoustically loud solid bodies out there. They tend to resonate very well. Even my G400, while it’s not the greatest chunk of mahogany in the world, sure is loud. However, it’s the decreased mass that also causes faster note decay.
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I'm with Mike on this: my SG has noticeably less sustain than my other guitars, including my floating Floyd-Rose strats.

You've got a thin body and a lot less neck support. For example, my PRS Soapbar SE sustains better than my SG. The SE's body is 1/4 inch thicker (guesstimate), and the neck tenon extends almost 2 frets high up the neck compared to my SG.
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

Empty Pockets said:
I'm gonna have to disagree with this one big time. If you can't play heavy strings it's just because your fingers aren't strong enough. The more you play heavier strings, the stronger your fingers will get.
Click to expand...

Well maybe. If your style includes a LOT of string bending, you'd need hands like a gorilla if you use thick strings. I'm a big guy with big hands & I struggle bending with 10's. Guys that bend a lot (call it 'excessively' if you want), tend to use 9's (which I also use myself). For my Peter Green style bends, 10's have too much tension to move the way I want. I love that deep, fast vibrato that hits you in the gut. I don't hear many guys bending to extremes like that these days, so I think I've got decent finger strength to be able to do it. When I'm not bending, 10's are fine, but then I lose my style.

I think it has to do as much with style as finger strength.
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

MikeS said:
Nice SG, BTW. I love the reissues... that small pick guard looks a bajillion times better than the big guards, and you couldn't have a more classic color combination.
Click to expand...

Logically, the early 1960's style SG angel-wing pickguard not only looks better (why hide a nice grain & finish behind a big piece of plastic?), but it makes a better sounding instrument too. The PU's are mounted into the wood, making the vibration, tone, and sustain transfer more direct from the body to the PU.

With the big pickguard of the late 1960's SG's, the PU's are mounted into plastic, which is then acting as a soundboard, and that can't do much for tone quality. There's a sizeable 'middleman' between body & PU, and its pretty thin & flimsy. I expect Fenders to hide behind plastic, but a Gibson/Epiphone should show off its wood, for both cosmetic & tonal reasons. Makes sense?
 
Re: Gibson SG Sustain, Advice needed!

blueman335 said:
Logically, the early 1960's style SG angel-wing pickguard not only looks better (why hide a nice grain & finish behind a big piece of plastic?), but it makes a better sounding instrument too. The PU's are mounted into the wood, making the vibration, tone, and sustain transfer more direct from the body to the PU.

With the big pickguard of the late 1960's SG's, the PU's are mounted into plastic, which is then acting as a soundboard, and that can't do much for tone quality. There's a sizeable 'middleman' between body & PU, and its pretty thin & flimsy. I expect Fenders to hide behind plastic, but a Gibson/Epiphone should show off its wood, for both cosmetic & tonal reasons. Makes sense?
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Interesting theory. Certainly the pickup's own motion can add to or subtract from the string's motion above them.

However, in most Gibson-style instruments you don't have the pickups directly screwed into the wood, they sit in plastic PU frames, and in both cases (PU frame and large pickguard) a screw with a spring holds the pickup.

I estimate that the fluffyness of the holding mechanism with the screw and the spring is much larger than the fluffyness difference between a PU frame and a pickguard holding the pickup.
 
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