Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

[astrozombie]

I often see nice "Les Paul" models here in Puerto Rico. A good 3/4ths of the time they are epiphones. I'm handed the guitar to check it out and what seems to be just my guitar with a different headstock doesn't sound or feel or even look like my guitar up close.

how can they make budget models with more or less (from what i can tell) the same type of woods and construction but have an ending product that so different?

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

The tone woods are not the same. The hardware is not the same. The pickups are not the same.

If Epiphone could build perfect replicas of Gibson models, they would;
EITHER drive Gibson out of business
OR have to charge the same prices as Gibson.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

Bingo

It looks similar.

That is where the similarity ends.

On top of varying species of wood, cheaper metals and electronics, you havea thicker more plastic like finish.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

And fwiw, the Epiphone Japanese models are/were right up there with USA models barring the difference in finish. Some would argue they are better...certainly they have more attention to detail and consistency of build quality. This goes for Orville and OBGs and Epi Elites.

 

[St_Genesius]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

Honestly, I think the finish is a big part of the difference in feel. I could be wrong, or listening with my eyes, but there's something that's a real turn off for me about a thick poly Earphone paint job. Even their satin finished stain models tend to feel like plastic to me.

Sill well made instruments, on the whole.

And really, given that my favorite feeling Gibson finishes are their cheapest, I don't know why anyone should listen to me.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

The difference in headstock angle is significant as well.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

Honestly, I think the finish is a big part of the difference in feel. I could be wrong, or listening with my eyes, but there's something that's a real turn off for me about a thick poly Earphone paint job. Even their satin finished stain models tend to feel like plastic to me.

Sill well made instruments, on the whole.

And really, given that my favorite feeling Gibson finishes are their cheapest, I don't know why anyone should listen to me.

I guess we are both off. Probably my favorite feeling neck is on one of the Tribute LP's. I don't even think it's been grain filled ... definitely not filled and sanded to "smooth", plus just has that thin nitro.

 

[DeadandBuried]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

I have one of each brand, a Les Paul studio by Gibson and a Les Paul Standard by Epiphone. Both sound awesome but only cos I've replaced a few things about them (mainly the bridge pick up, the tailpiece and installing an Earvana nut). I think with a Gibson you're paying for better materials plus the name as well.

But, when looking at Les Paul's a few years back I tried several Gibson Les Paul Standards which not only weighed a ton but didn't sound great in the demo room. Maybe it was the amp or whatever I don't know. They were the really expensive ones too. Then I tried some Epiphone Les Paul Customs, again they sounded really bad. Eventually I grabbed an Epi Les Paul Standard and plugged that in, result, I loved the feel and the sustain of the guitar and settled on that. The cheapest of the guitars I tried that day (must have been 5 guitars) yet the best sounding. Pot luck or just good judgement?

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

Feel different: Different woods (Phillipine "Mahogany" vs African Mahogany), different finishes, different materials and craftsmanship on the binding/frets, different specs, different hardware, and a functional headstock vs a broken one (last one isn't too serious - Epiphone head stocks break less because of the cheaper but more effective scarf joint and shallower break angle at the headstock).

Sound different: Same reasons why most of them feel different.

Gibson controls both companies, so competing with themselves by making a cheaper but very similar product would work against themselves.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

Fwiw, I feel that in a generall sense the quality of tone woods Gibson proper is using has gone downhill.

Some people say its the Fijian growth wood, some say the additional plasticizers. IDK. But I play far fewer these days that sound all that great. And that includes custom shop stuff. Some of the best sounding modern Gibson models are the cheaper thin "faded" guitars with chambering/weight relief.

 

[St_Genesius]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

There are plenty of people who would say that you should put scare quotes around that second mahogany as well.

Phillipine "Mahogany" vs African Mahogany

 

[St_Genesius]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

Me too! My 60s Tribute is the standard from which all my other guitars deviate.

I really, really, really, REALLY (really) like the feel of the various "faded" finishes they've done over the years. There's something homey and cobbled-together about them that I find soothing.

I guess we are both off. Probably my favorite feeling neck is on one of the Tribute LP's. I don't even think it's been grain filled ... definitely not filled and sanded to "smooth", plus just has that thin nitro.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

a few years back I tried some Epiphone Les Paul Customs, again they sounded really bad. Eventually I grabbed an Epi Les Paul Standard and plugged that in, result, I loved the feel and the sustain of the guitar and settled on that. The cheapest of the guitars I tried that day (must have been 5 guitars) yet the best sounding. Pot luck or just good judgment?

Epi started a PU upgrade program in 2012, using Probuckers on selected models (LP Std, LP Ultra, etc), and a sprinkling of Gibson PU's. Surprisingly, they are still using the cheaper Alnico Classic Pros on LP Customs & Sheratons. With those higher-priced models you're getting gold hardware and bigger frets inlays, but cheaper PU's. The current LP Std Plus models are the best and most consistent Epi LP's I've seen, and the price is competitive. Not surprised you picked one.

 

[DeadandBuried]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

Epi started a PU upgrade program in 2012, using Probuckers on selected models (LP Std, LP Ultra, etc), and a sprinkling of Gibson PU's. Surprisingly, they are still using the cheaper Alnico Classic Pros on LP Customs & Sheratons. With those higher-priced models you're getting gold hardware and bigger frets inlays, but cheaper PU's. The current LP Std Plus models are the best and most consistent Epi LP's I've seen, and the price is competitive. Not surprised you picked one.

Yeah it was in 2012 I got that Standard. It outplayed all the customs and more expensive ones I tried out before. The stock pickups were ok but I still fancied something with more power so I switched the bridge out. The neck is still the same though and yeah I think its an Alnico.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

The Epiphone Tribute series has a Chinese body and finish
With Gibson USA pickups , electronics and hardware
Grover locking tuners

I played a well set up one in a store and was stunned
I dare anyone to blind test one with a Gibson

Double dog dare you

 

[JeffB]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

Alnico Classic Pros are not the same as the old Alnico Classics they used for years. They use the upgraded bobbins, magnets, wire, and steel parts of the Probuckers..in addition to the 4 con wire.

ImE, the classic pros are an upgraded 498/490 set. Fuller, more lively, and clear.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

The same reason a Squier and Fender don't feel the same. Different companies (commmon ownership) at different price points. They have similarities but will have noticeable differences.

Similar to vehicles–you have your Chevy, Fords, Toyotas etc that will have similar platforms to their Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, etc counterparts but will have significant differences as well.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

Alnico Classic Pros are not the same as the old Alnico Classics they used for years. They use the upgraded bobbins, magnets, wire, and steel parts of the Probuckers..in addition to the 4 con wire.

ImE, the classic pros are an upgraded 498/490 set. Fuller, more lively, and clear.

Right, not the same (the original Alnico Classics from years ago were also known as 'Mudbuckers'. Terrible PU's). The new Alnico Classics have better materials than those, but I don't think they're quite up to Probucker quality, which is why they've been pretty selective on which models get Probuckers. I'm sure they have to pay more for those from Artec.

I haven't thought of Alnico Classic Pros in terms of being an equivalent to the 498T/490R set, although that might be the intention. They don't have that grainy sound quality that 498T's do. I'm not sure if ACP's have A2's or A5's; I've seen claims for both. I had an LP Royale that came with two hot ACP's in it, like around 17K each. Don't know if that was a fluke or intentional.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

This thread has gone pretty well so far. Nobody slagging anything or anyone off.

Some of the issue here is down to personal expectations of how a Les Paul type guitar should look, sound, feel and smell. It is possible to get severely retentive about headstock tilt angles, neck joint tenon lengths, cable channel dimensions, binding depth in the cutaway et cetera.

A friend of mine is about to embark on a series of experiments to get his mid-Noughties Gibson LP Standard sounding "just so". He and a local luthier are considering teaching themselves to wind pickups in pursuit of this imagined perfect tone. The cost of a winding machine alone would buy a pair of NOS Bonnamassabuckers - never mind my suggestion of a Brobucker and either an A4 SH-1N or a Pearly Gates N.

Ironically, the guitar that, so far, comes closest to my friend's ideal is a pre-lawsuit PRS Singlecut.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Gibson Vs Epiphone: Why doesn't epiphone sound or feel the same?

Ironically, the guitar that, so far, comes closest to my friend's ideal is a pre-lawsuit PRS Singlecut.

My sc245 frankly sounds alot more vintage and classic than either of my les pauls...its a richer fuller sweeter sounding guitar..I often catch myself saying "damn, that reminds me of... (insert classic rock recording).


Better wood..better materials, better build. Thinner finish.