@#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

[TheArchitect]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

they do if you go over to europe. but here in the US you pay for imports. A mercedes and BMW in europe and asia costs just as much as your regular Ford and Chevy here. So not a good comparison. I said it before and I'll say it again, your standard Les Paul is not $1500 or $2000 better than your American Series Strat. For $2500 or $3000, you can get a handmade PRS that you know will be top quality. Like I said I'm not bashing Gibson, I love the company and their product. I just think its a bit overpriced for what your getting.

I agree with you about PRS quality but they are not hand made in the strictist sense. There is a lot of hand work that goes into any guitar but PRS bodies and necks are roughed in on CNC machines.

 

[hareek]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

I agree with you about PRS quality but they are not hand made in the strictist sense. There is a lot of hand work that goes into any guitar but PRS bodies and necks are roughed in on CNC machines.

yeah your right...they're body production is done on a machine so they can keep up with demand but you'll be surprised how much "hands on" work goes into those guitars. they're definitely worth every penny of the price. before the company got really huge, every guitar that came out of that place was handmade.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

This assumes or at least implies that CNC machining is inferior to hand cutting/carving. Generally it's the opposite. The CNC's are extremely accurate, or at least as accurate as the guy inputting the specs (garbage in, garbage out and all that).

It's QC where the hands-on approach is critical.

 

[hareek]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

This assumes or at least implies that CNC machining is inferior to hand cutting/carving. Generally it's the opposite. The CNC's are extremely accurate, or at least as accurate as the guy inputting the specs (garbage in, garbage out and all that).

It's QC where the hands-on approach is critical.

ah good point. aren't thise machines highly intriquite(spelling?)....laser guided and stuff?

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

I think that's where the money argument is logical. If you're paying for a guitar, even if it's only $1200 for a Studio (only!? Ha!), it should still be exceptional. It should play great, and be set up for you. Of course, we'll never see this...

Once again how much is your labor worth? Most of the guitars in question have set necks, binding, inlays, multiple laminations. This all accounts for higher manufacturing costs because of the materials AND the labor. Do any of you guys work for $5.15 an hour? Do you want to? Don't you want to be payed a premium? The employees for Gibson are no exception. There is more time spent making a Gibson than a Fender, Time=Money

That's the same reason the aforementioned PRS' are expensive. I got a SMOKIN deal on mine and love it dearly, but it still wasn't cheap, but there was quite a bit of labor involved, as well as high quality components.

At the end of the day Gibson or whoever can't put out a guitar that is set up for you, and to think they can is asinine or naive. I like a low action, some like a high action, some like to be in between. That should be part of a deal when you buy a guitar....set it up....for me.

Luke

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

They are extremely intricate. I'm not sure if they are able to use them for top carves or not, but they can certainly machine a neck joint far better than even the best craftsman. Not that a great luthier can't nail it, just that if the luthier made 1,000 neck joints and the CNC made 1,000, the CNC's would probably literally bat a thousand while even the best luthier would still screw a few of them up.

 

[flank]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

Once again how much is your labor worth? Most of the guitars in question have set necks, binding, inlays, multiple laminations. This all accounts for higher manufacturing costs because of the materials AND the labor. Do any of you guys work for $5.15 an hour? Do you want to? Don't you want to be payed a premium? The employees for Gibson are no exception. There is more time spent making a Gibson than a Fender, Time=Money

Luke

i wouldnt mind paying so much for labor if i knew that every gibson i play will be a great guitar. It definately takes more time and labor to build a gibson, but what difference does it make if they labor isnt done well? Why would i pay so much for labor, when the end result is not a great guitar?

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

At the end of the day Gibson or whoever can't put out a guitar that is set up for you, and to think they can is asinine or naive. I like a low action, some like a high action, some like to be in between. That should be part of a deal when you buy a guitar....set it up....for me.

Luke

True, but Gibson whore that I am, I'll play devil's advocate and say that regardless of action and set up, there's still no excuse for bad fretwork. High or low action, you still need properly crowned and polished frets, and 5 years ago you were as likely as not to get an LP that had frets that looked like the neck was tumbled in a cement mixer full of gravel.

I got a 54 Historic LP Custom like that once. 10-mile high action wouldn't have stopped the buzzing. In all other aspects, the workmanship -- finish, alignment, even ironically enough the fret ends -- was flawless. And once I got the frets properly dressed, it was a dream guitar, a killer tone monster groovalicious blues/rock/jazz/funk machine that could make you forget all pain. No Hamer, PRS, or even vaunted Agile could ever have replaced it.

Hated to let it go, wish I still had it, want another one just like it. It's just a mystery and a shame that it could have come out of the Custom Shop with frets like that.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

i wouldnt mind paying so much for labor if i knew that every gibson i play will be a great guitar. It definately takes more time and labor to build a gibson, but what difference does it make if they labor isnt done well? Why would i pay so much for labor, when the end result is not a great guitar?

The end result IS a great guitar if you don't buy the bad ones. You should NEVER buy a guitar without playing it first, no matter WHO made it.

 

[hareek]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

The end result IS a great guitar if you don't buy the bad ones. You should NEVER buy a guitar without playing it first, no matter WHO made it.

I played about 8 or 9 different strats before I setelled on mine. As soon as I picked mine up, I instantly could tell the difference than the others. I knew right away I wanted that guitar.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

True, but Gibson whore that I am, I'll play devil's advocate and say that regardless of action and set up, there's still no excuse for bad fretwork. High or low action, you still need properly crowned and polished frets, and 5 years ago you were as likely as not to get an LP that had frets that looked like the neck was tumbled in a cement mixer full of gravel.

I agree absolutely. I had to let go of my Custom (don't know if you saw that post earlier) because of said issue.

Luke

 

[MikeS]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

they do if you go over to europe. but here in the US you pay for imports. A mercedes and BMW in europe and asia costs just as much as your regular Ford and Chevy here. So not a good comparison.

Fine... Lincoln? Caddilac? My point was not necessarily about those brands in specific, but that the nicer things in life generally carry a higher price tag. Understand that part of what you pay for is the name on the headstock, just like if you were to buy a Caddy or Lincoln you paying largely for the name and the luxury associated with the name.

I said it before and I'll say it again, your standard Les Paul is not $1500 or $2000 better than your American Series Strat.

Maybe not to you, but then again, not every guitar player shares your taste and preferences. I must have also missed the part that said a strat and a LP were direct competitors. They aren't even close to being the same guitar, so don't compare them in that way.

You guys really have to stop moaning about how you can't afford a Gibson Les Paul and do something constructive like, let's see, play guitar, work and save some cash so you can actually buy a LP... I'm not picking on any one guy, but rather the whole collective bunch of guys that feel the need to start a topic like this once a month. We already know Gibsons are expensive, we know there are a few QC issues the company has to deal with, and we know the company has some sketchy corporate policies. We also know the company makes and has made for many years high quality instruments that are not indended for the beginning guitar player. We don't need to be reminded of those points on a seemingly daily basis.

 

[hareek]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

Fine... Lincoln? Caddilac? My point was not necessarily about those brands in specific, but that the nicer things in life generally carry a higher price tag. Understand that part of what you pay for is the name on the headstock, just like if you were to buy a Caddy or Lincoln you paying largely for the name and the luxury associated with the name.

I see what your saying. sorry for the confusion. And yeah you will pay for name..that's expected.

I must have also missed the part that said a strat and a LP were direct competitors. They aren't even close to being the same guitar, so don't compare them in that way.

LP and a Tele then? Those are competitive models. I just chose a nice guitar and the strat was the first that came to mind since that's what I play.

My point has nothing to do with personal preference though. I'm going to pay the price eventually because I really want one, as I would expect any Gibson lover would do the same. And like I said, I'm not bashing Gibson in any way. I'm not whining or moaning at all. I just think for the product I'm getting, it's slightly overpriced. That's all.

 

[flank]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

The end result IS a great guitar if you don't buy the bad ones. You should NEVER buy a guitar without playing it first, no matter WHO made it.

but why is there even bad ones for this kind of $$$? ......that was my point

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

You guys really have to stop moaning about how you can't afford a Gibson Les Paul and do something constructive like, let's see, play guitar, work and save some cash so you can actually buy a LP... I'm not picking on any one guy, but rather the whole collective bunch of guys that feel the need to start a topic like this once a month. We already know Gibsons are expensive, we know there are a few QC issues the company has to deal with, and we know the company has some sketchy corporate policies. We also know the company makes and has made for many years high quality instruments that are not indended for the beginning guitar player. We don't need to be reminded of those points on a seemingly daily basis.

Hooray MikeS!!

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

but why is there even bad ones for this kind of $$$? ......that was my point

I guess the defacto answer is that "everyone produces turds".

Another guess is that Gibson makes such wildly different types of guitars is because one man's trash is another man's treasure.

For example I like a light LP, whereas some guys insist that the heavier it is the better off you are.

BUT if there are going to be such a wide variety it seems Gibson would take into account the cost of setting up and a fret crown FOR an individual and build that in.

Once again, I have no answers other than the ones I already provided.

Luke

 

[jdm61]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

This is also why Clapton prefers to play a Fender over a Gibson!

Actually, he started playing a Strat as an "homage' to Jimi:fingersx:

 

[jdm61]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

Gibson does not build guitars for the working musician anymore. They build guitars for rich people who have nothing better to do than spend 3 to 6 grand on one of the new second rate Les Pauls.

Sure they build them for the working musician........working musicians like Joe Perry, Brad Whitford, Slash, etc, etc, etc. THOSE are the working musicians. and yes, they also do build them for "rich people" who have nothing bettter to do.......like me:fingersx: And let me tell you......I felt so deprived and taken advantage of for having to settle for my "second rate" new R9:chairfall

 

[Rushfan2112]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

Once again how much is your labor worth? Most of the guitars in question have set necks, binding, inlays, multiple laminations. This all accounts for higher manufacturing costs because of the materials AND the labor. Do any of you guys work for $5.15 an hour? Do you want to? Don't you want to be payed a premium? The employees for Gibson are no exception. There is more time spent making a Gibson than a Fender, Time=Money

That's the same reason the aforementioned PRS' are expensive. I got a SMOKIN deal on mine and love it dearly, but it still wasn't cheap, but there was quite a bit of labor involved, as well as high quality components.

At the end of the day Gibson or whoever can't put out a guitar that is set up for you, and to think they can is asinine or naive. I like a low action, some like a high action, some like to be in between. That should be part of a deal when you buy a guitar....set it up....for me.

Luke

OK, so maybe not "set up exactly for you" (which Reverend does now, and they're out of Korea... they'll even put whatever strings you want on it!), but not horrid innontation and other inconsistancies that I see a lot.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

OK, so maybe not "set up exactly for you" (which Reverend does now, and they're out of Korea... they'll even put whatever strings you want on it!), but not horrid innontation and other inconsistancies that I see a lot.

Once again the question comes up, where did you play these culprit Gibsons. Do you special order the Reverend? In which case I can understand a personalized set up.

Be it know by all *again* I'm am not a huge Gibson fan, I just get irritated at broad generalizations and flawed logic.

Luke