@#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

[Sniper1]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

Wake up and smell the roses,You're not buying the guitar,you're buying the name thats on the headstock,You should know the drill by now which goes like this-You pay me 2 grand for the name on this guitar and I'll throw in the guitar for free, I'll even include a >>>>>> pick.Thats the NAME of the game nowadays.My 60 dollar >>>>> can outrun 300 dollar Nikes anyday of the week just ask my local John Law.


Profanity Warning. See Terms of Service

 

[Hoss]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

maybe one of these days i can snag a used LP for a good price!? it's tough to get that sound and sustain out of other guitars!!! like what has been said...i don't like what they've done to dealers and i'd probably never buy a new one, but i don't think i'd buy a "new" guitar from any manufacturer anyways

 

[Rushfan2112]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

maybe one of these days i can snag a used LP for a good price!? it's tough to get that sound and sustain out of other guitars!!! like what has been said...i don't like what they've done to dealers and i'd probably never buy a new one, but i don't think i'd buy a "new" guitar from any manufacturer anyways

If you do new, get the lowest price possible. Always haggle. But I agree that the used market for Gibson guitar-- and ANY guitar-- is great. There's always someone out there with GAS for ____ and they have to let go their _____.

 

[Mr Wolf]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

Well when i got my Dean, the original price (before discount) was only £100 shy of an LP studio so i played a few of those too. Didn't cut it, but the Dean blew it away so i walked away with it. Its amusing to me sometimes, i used to have major GAS for an LP type guitar. I was looking at Tokais, ESP LTDs, low end Gibby and whilst good, they didnt have that connection with me. As soon as i cut the whole need for an LP style guitar i found an axe that played like butter and is so toneful. Now i havent had LP GAS since. I know LPs have their unique voice, but the Dean throws me in that general territory enough and by its playability alone makes it a keeper. As much as some things Gibson have done have been questionable, its not like im personally suffering because of it. Business is business in the end. Sad world but hey Gibson arent the only company in the world to not be perfect.

Jeff

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

Well when i got my Dean, the original price (before discount) was only £100 shy of an LP studio so i played a few of those too. Didn't cut it, but the Dean blew it away so i walked away with it. Its amusing to me sometimes, i used to have major GAS for an LP type guitar. I was looking at Tokais, ESP LTDs, low end Gibby and whilst good, they didnt have that connection with me. As soon as i cut the whole need for an LP style guitar i found an axe that played like butter and is so toneful. Now i havent had LP GAS since. I know LPs have their unique voice, but the Dean throws me in that general territory enough and by its playability alone makes it a keeper. As much as some things Gibson have done have been questionable, its not like im personally suffering because of it. Business is business in the end. Sad world but hey Gibson arent the only company in the world to not be perfect.

Jeff

Jeff I'm glad to hear you like your hardtail. I've never had the opportunity to play one of the nice hardtails, the pictures I've seen blow my mind though.

Luke

 

[JeffB]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

Jeff I'm glad to hear you like your hardtail. I've never had the opportunity to play one of the nice hardtails, the pictures I've seen blow my mind though.

Luke

They def are *not* a Les Paul tonally or in feel, but the USA Hardtail I played was one of the absolute finest instruments I've ever had the pleasure of playing. Flawlessly built, gorgeous fit and finish. Awesome wood quality. FANTASTIC NECK. Basically PRS quality with Gibson-esque feel and tone (thanks to the scale length). I much prefer it over a Reed.

 

[Mr Wolf]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

I feel im constantly pluggin my Hardtail! I love it though. One day i might own a Gibby. Well, almost certainly an Explorer!

Jeff

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

Wake up and smell the roses,You're not buying the guitar,you're buying the name thats on the headstock,You should know the drill by now which goes like this-You pay me 2 grand for the name on this guitar and I'll throw in the guitar for free, I'll even include a >>>>>> pick.Thats the NAME of the game nowadays.My 60 dollar >>>>> can outrun 300 dollar Nikes anyday of the week just ask my local John Law.

Profanity Warning. See Terms of Service

Gosh it's a good thing we had another teenager come in here and make that point just now, which was sorely needed since the other 30 times it was already mentioned in this thread.

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

Wake up and smell the roses,You're not buying the guitar,you're buying the name thats on the headstock,You should know the drill by now which goes like this-You pay me 2 grand for the name on this guitar and I'll throw in the guitar for free, I'll even include a >>>>>> pick.Thats the NAME of the game nowadays.My 60 dollar >>>>> can outrun 300 dollar Nikes anyday of the week just ask my local John Law.


Profanity Warning. See Terms of Service

Any pics of your collection? I would love to see what the Dahli Lama of guitar economics is using so I have a direction to aspire to.

 

[markatards]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

Hi there - new member here

Regarding point 2... Asian made guitars have come a long way since I was a kid. When I was learning to play, a Japanese guitar meant a space age looking guitar with a lot of switches and knobs, but the best action you could get out of it was an inch at the 12th fret. Better suited for slinging arrows than making rock. These days there's a lot of really, really great guitars being made really really cheaply. The key is the precision machining- there's such close tolerances on these things. What separates the expensive guitars from the cheap guitars is the materials. That's the same from cheap guitar to expensive guitar and expensive guitar to really expensive guitar.

If it doesn't matter that you're getting a Basswood or Philippine Mahogany body instead of regular Mahogany or quality lightweight Mahogany- then it doesn't matter to you. If decent electronics and pickups don't matter to you- it doesn't matter to you. If you don't care about getting a nitro finish- a poly finish will suit you fine.

Bit of a generalisation that.

My Tokai Love Rock LS150 ('59 rep) comes with one piece mahogany body (lightweight but no need for weight relief holes); one piece deep tenon neck; solid AA/AAA flame maple top; nitro finish; lightweight ally tailpiece; Switchcraft jack; CTS pots; Sprague condensors; Western Electric wiring etc. All for £650 - the price in the UK of a LP special faded and half the price of a Standard. What would I have to pay for a similarly spec’d Gibson?

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

Hi there - new member here



Bit of a generalisation that.

My Tokai Love Rock LS150 ('59 rep) comes with one piece mahogany body (lightweight but no need for weight relief holes); one piece deep tenon neck; solid AA/AAA flame maple top; nitro finish; lightweight ally tailpiece; Switchcraft jack; CTS pots; Sprague condensors; Western Electric wiring etc. All for £650 - the price in the UK of a LP special faded and half the price of a Standard. What would I have to pay for a similarly spec’d Gibson?

Welcome to the Forum markatards!

Not a generalization at all. Realize this is 25+ years ago. Yes, there were quality made guitars coming out of Japan back then, but the LARGE majority were cheap copies of American designs. When was your LS150 made? I can guarantee you, that Tokai is LEAGUES better than the Hondo, Lotus, Mempis...etc LP copies I "cut my teeth" on.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

Some of the Squier Strats from Japan in those days were actually quite good.

 

[markatards]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

Apologies Goldenboy

I thought you were suggesting that current 'Asian' guitars were constructed from cheap materials. As a matter of interest. The best fixed neck guitar I have is a 1991 Yamaha MSG Standard (Mirage in the USA). Solid as a rock and gives LP tones and much more. The MSG was consructed in Taiwan
(offshore China). Martyn Booth (designer of the MSG) told me the reason Yamaha decided to bulid it in Taiwan instead of Japan was to demonstrate that Taiwan was easily capable of the required standards.

PS I'm old enough to remember when 'Made in Japan' was an insult (rather than an LP title) and my first guitar was a Satellite 'black beauty' with a balsa body; microphonic single coil humbuckers and 3/4" action. Things have changed - otherwise Americans (and we here in the UK) would still be buying home grown cars (autos) and other products.

 

[choppermn]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

True, but Gibson whore that I am, I'll play devil's advocate and say that regardless of action and set up, there's still no excuse for bad fretwork. High or low action, you still need properly crowned and polished frets, and 5 years ago you were as likely as not to get an LP that had frets that looked like the neck was tumbled in a cement mixer full of gravel.

I got a 54 Historic LP Custom like that once. 10-mile high action wouldn't have stopped the buzzing. In all other aspects, the workmanship -- finish, alignment, even ironically enough the fret ends -- was flawless. And once I got the frets properly dressed, it was a dream guitar, a killer tone monster groovalicious blues/rock/jazz/funk machine that could make you forget all pain. No Hamer, PRS, or even vaunted Agile could ever have replaced it.

Hated to let it go, wish I still had it, want another one just like it. It's just a mystery and a shame that it could have come out of the Custom Shop with frets like that.

hehe nice shot, but if you played this agile 3000 you'd say it's 8 of 10 to any gibson, there's significant differences between the agile series- the cheap ones with plastic inlays never interested me, i had a guy who refrets gibson's say this thing is nice, and this guy rebuilds old stand up basses, violins, he is a true expert, look i may have got lucky, but I seem to notice the price of these higher standard agiles are up, or not available and ya, i'd take the name if you gave it to me, but i'd rather have the tone i'll let you rich guys keep gibson in business, truthfully i'll upgrade to a Heritage, but not anytime soon

 

[Stratcat]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

Hi there - new member here



Bit of a generalisation that.

My Tokai Love Rock LS150 ('59 rep) comes with one piece mahogany body (lightweight but no need for weight relief holes); one piece deep tenon neck; solid AA/AAA flame maple top; nitro finish; lightweight ally tailpiece; Switchcraft jack; CTS pots; Sprague condensors; Western Electric wiring etc. All for £650 - the price in the UK of a LP special faded and half the price of a Standard. What would I have to pay for a similarly spec’d Gibson?

IMHO, this guitar is just as good as the old Les Pauls for a lot less money.

 

[Imp]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

Some of the Squier Strats from Japan in those days were actually quite good.

big big big +1!

a lot of the *genuine* japanese fender and squier strats to emerge from '85 to the production stop in '93 are gold dust - i've always kept an open mind as to american fenders, but i really beleive the MIJ stuff is on par with the standard american stuff.. the only strat i'd upgrade to would be an eric johnson model.. the nitro finish!

tom

 

[JeffB]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

I guess it boils down to this for me...

Over the years I've had a few dozen gibsons...mostly Les Pauls. I've had high end USA guitars most of my life. As well as Hamer, PRS, Jackson, etc.

I've done the import thing out of necessity..lack of funds. IME, the MIJ stuff are really good clones. They are excellent values...and in many cases exceed Gibsons QC...they are put together near flawlessly. But for me there is no comparison to the better Gibsons I've had for *what matters* to me...how they play, how they sound, and how they feel. They do not feel the same, and I'd be glad to bring my Tokai and let someone play it back to back against a good production Gibson. Does the Tokai (or my edwards) play great? Absolutely. Does it (they) sound good? Absolutely. Does it (they) look like a Les Paul? 90% of the way there really. But it just does NOT compare to the USA production guits I've had. At all! They doesn't play the same. They doesn't feel the same. My Edwards even less so than the Tokai. Even my USA Heritage never "felt" right to me. I don't know exactly WHAT it is. Its a comination of a lot of little things I guess. But I pick up my MIJ/MIKs and they feel like toys comparitively. Then again, I've always felt that way about most strat type guitars too. Only the high end US stuff has ever felt "right" to me...Hamer, PRS, Jackson, Charvel, Gibson, etc.

Believe you me, I'd much rather pay $700 than $2000 for a guitar that plays, feels, and sounds as good as my old 93 Standard. Or my 88 Black Custom. Or my mid 80s custom shop standard/custom hybrid. My R8. My Faded Standard. The MF Deluxe I had. The 77 Deluxe I had, etc etc. I certainly won't say that there are not MIJs out there that would approach or exceed those guits...but I haven't found one..and I have tried. And I won't say Gibson doesn't build some crap, cos they certainly do. But when they (Gibson builders) are "on", they live up to their slogan.

Maybe others are not as picky about their Les Pauls. Maybe some haven't had as much or any experience with *really* good Gibsons (thats not a slight or insinuation, I mean that sincerely). Maybe people just don't want to pay 2K for something that is not aesthetically flawless. IDK. All good reasons I guess and I won't begrudge ANYONE thier opinions or personal tastes or having a budget (believe me...I DO understand that)

But for me, having that guitar that just "works" in every single aspect is worth the aggravation of searching for and paying top dollar for. YMMV.

 

[choppermn]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

I guess it boils down to this for me...

Over the years I've had a few dozen gibsons...mostly Les Pauls. I've had high end USA guitars most of my life. As well as Hamer, PRS, Jackson, etc.

I've done the import thing out of necessity..lack of funds. IME, the MIJ stuff are really good clones. They are excellent values...and in many cases exceed Gibsons QC...they are put together near flawlessly. But for me there is no comparison to the better Gibsons I've had for *what matters* to me...how they play, how they sound, and how they feel. They do not feel the same, and I'd be glad to bring my Tokai and let someone play it back to back against a good production Gibson. Does the Tokai (or my edwards) play great? Absolutely. Does it (they) sound good? Absolutely. Does it (they) look like a Les Paul? 90% of the way there really. But it just does NOT compare to the USA production guits I've had. At all! They doesn't play the same. They doesn't feel the same. My Edwards even less so than the Tokai. Even my USA Heritage never "felt" right to me. I don't know exactly WHAT it is. Its a comination of a lot of little things I guess. But I pick up my MIJ/MIKs and they feel like toys comparitively. Then again, I've always felt that way about most strat type guitars too. Only the high end US stuff has ever felt "right" to me...Hamer, PRS, Jackson, Charvel, Gibson, etc.

Believe you me, I'd much rather pay $700 than $2000 for a guitar that plays, feels, and sounds as good as my old 93 Standard. Or my 88 Black Custom. Or my mid 80s custom shop standard/custom hybrid. My R8. My Faded Standard. The MF Deluxe I had. The 77 Deluxe I had, etc etc. I certainly won't say that there are not MIJs out there that would approach or exceed those guits...but I haven't found one..and I have tried. And I won't say Gibson doesn't build some crap, cos they certainly do. But when they (Gibson builders) are "on", they live up to their slogan.

Maybe others are not as picky about their Les Pauls. Maybe some haven't had as much or any experience with *really* good Gibsons (thats not a slight or insinuation, I mean that sincerely). Maybe people just don't want to pay 2K for something that is not aesthetically flawless. IDK. All good reasons I guess and I won't begrudge ANYONE thier opinions or personal tastes or having a budget (believe me...I DO understand that)

But for me, having that guitar that just "works" in every single aspect is worth the aggravation of searching for and paying top dollar for. YMMV.

thanks for your opinion, i'm sure a lot of the nuances of having a gibson do add up but for my being a 2 on scale of 1-10 for skill level it will take a few more years of work to notice these nuances, also i must admit i'm very proud I bought my new highway 1 strat(FINALLY an American guitar!), over the MIM or affinity series, I was amazed the strat forum recommended the chinese strat, i saw one at a pawn shop for 100bucks, the frets were awful, and it sounded like driftwood, anyways I really like hearing opinions of you guys to avoid some future GAS mistakes

 

[Jacques]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

But for me there is no comparison to the better Gibsons I've had for *what matters* to me...how they play, how they sound, and how they feel. They do not feel the same, and I'd be glad to bring my Tokai and let someone play it back to back against a good production Gibson. Does the Tokai (or my edwards) play great? Absolutely. Does it (they) sound good? Absolutely. Does it (they) look like a Les Paul? 90% of the way there really. But it just does NOT compare to the USA production guits I've had.

Don't you American Forum guys hold meetings? Wouldn't it be a great idea to organize some sort of blind test with these top Gibbys many members are talking about mixed with Tokais, Hamers, Heritages and whatever else there is we all boast about? The audience should not know what instrument is being played and the players should play their own guitars to their very best.
IMO there could be some astonishing results - also as far as pick up comparisons are concerned.

 

[Wattage]

Re: @#$&$&@ gibson, why so much $$$

At the first LI Forum Get Together we compared all the guitars and pickups to an old lp with PAFs (54 conversion to 59 specs). Nothing was really close, Jeffrec's LP Custom with Ant's was probably the closest if memory serves me.