Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

dr0

New member
The Les Paul Standard is an icon, and while their are a few variations the basic guitar shape and layout is pretty standard. Perhaps as you'd expect for something called the Standard. Two volume knobs, two tone knobs, a toggle on the top, a Tune-o-Matic bridge. And most of the variations vary on pretty small things, the biding, the fret board inlays, sometimes the wood the top is made out of. When you say "Les Paul" we all have a picture of that "ur" Les Paul, and it's even used as the logo for the Hardrock Cafe.

But, when you get to the Juniors all standardization pretty much goes out the window, and it collapses entirely with the Double Cut models. Even the name is confusing, as both the single cut and double cut models are referred to as the Les Paul Junior. The "double cut" moniker was not applied by Gibson until relatively recently, perhaps around 2000? In certain years the Junior was an SG shape, but with a single pickup. More confusion around the name.

For a while in the early 2000s, perhaps in response to Paul Reed Smith guitars Gibson tried to meld the fancy maple tops of the Les Paul Standard with body of the Double Cut Jr. It was not a happy marriage, and all such guitars disappeared from the catalog a long time ago. For the last few years the DC totally disappeared out of the Gibson catalog, except of the Billy Armstrong Signature model.

Gibson has issued the guitar with P-90s, a noise cancelling version of the P-90, the P-100 and mini-humbuckers. They come with one or two pickups, the single bridge pickup being true to the original design, the dual pickup version came out a couple years later. There at least 4 or 5 different pickguard shapes to accommodate all the different pickup and control layouts that the Junior DC has seen.

This years 2019 model has the single pickup, but a new weird pickguard and the input jack location has moved from the side (like on almost all other LP's) to the top (like on a Gibson L6-S). Maybe this is to bring costs down, but it's fugly. The damn thing is in the way there, too.

Like the Flying V, Gibson has never been able to decide how many knobs it really needs. The single pickup models seem to have two pretty consistently, but the two pickup models have come with 2, 3, and 4 knobs in various layouts over the years, three in a row, three in a triangle shape.

Bridges seem to alternate back and forth between Tune-0-Matic style and the older one piece, the latter being the one that belongs on the guitar, pretty obviously. But they resist proper intonation.

Regardless of year the colors offered tend to be restricted to heritage cherry, TV yellow and black.

This year the only other LP Junior DC's, besides the fugly budget model, are Custom Shop versions that claim to reproduce the authentic originals. The "1958 Les Paul Junior Double Cut Reissue" is $3,800. The 1960 Reissue has two pickups, and is also $3800. Either can be had in a in TV Yellow or Cherry Red, naturally. I guess maybe they might sell one of these, I don't know. Personally if I was every going to spend almost $4,000 on a new guitar from Gibson I'd be a lot more likely to want something with fancy fret markers, nice bindings, or a killer tiger-stripe maple top. The Custom Shop Flying V is completely over-the-top in terms of gold hardware and stuff, but at least you can see what your $4,000 is buying.

Not that Gibson cares, but my advice to them would be to stick to the layout they have on the reissues, which one assumes is how Les Paul designed them, and really hasn't been improved with the last 20 years of endless variations. They should be inexpensive, but not obviously cheapened. Some great players have used and loved the Junior DC, and it needs to be treated better by Gibson, hopefully the new management will get it together with regards to this classic guitar.

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The 1958 single pickup. Cherry Red.

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The 1960 dual pickup. TV Yellow.

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This year's model: Les Paul Junior Tribute DC 2019 in "Alternate Finish" worn ebony.

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Year unknown. The "Single Cut"? With factory Tune-O-Matic

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Someone had to. Looks fun!

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A year 2000 Junior "Lite" .. P100's and trapezoid fret markers.

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Keith.

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the late Johnny Thunders of the New York Dolls

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Joan Jett
 
Re: Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

That's a lot of content to read on a phone quickly, appreciate the effort.

But if they just kept the 1958 Red LP Jr and the 1960 LP Special TV DC (shown in your second pic) in circulation I would be happy.

I consider the 1960 LP Special DC to be the finest feeling instrument to my hand they have ever made.
 
Re: Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

I have to admit that the design on the double cut seems unfinished, like someone was just bandsawing shapes in shop class and someone picked the 'least worst' of them.
 
Re: Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

I have a LP Special DC p90. And although it’s a great guitar, it took a bit of effort and work to get it there.
The robo tuners were replaced.
I replaced the bridge with a Schaller wraparound that is able to be actually intonated.
I removed the pcb board and pickups and replaced with traditional wiring. (Which I am re-doing this weekend...long story)
But all in all I’m not complaining...,it plays and sounds great.
 
Re: Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

I have a LP Special DC p90. And although it’s a great guitar, it took a bit of effort and work to get it there.
The robo tuners were replaced.
I replaced the bridge with a Schaller wraparound that is able to be actually intonated.
I removed the pcb board and pickups and replaced with traditional wiring. (Which I am re-doing this weekend...long story)
But all in all I’m not complaining...,it plays and sounds great.

I almost bought one of those, but contemplated doing what you are doing now, and got cold feet, but am kicking myself for it now.
 
Re: Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

I almost bought one of those, but contemplated doing what you are doing now, and got cold feet, but am kicking myself for it now.

Tbh, the only reason I bought it is because Sam Ash was blowing them out for $550 and I had a coupon for a little more off.
Otherwise I probably wouldn’t have bitten at full price.
 
Re: Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

which one assumes is how Les Paul designed them, and really hasn't been improved with the last 20 years of endless variations

You assume WRONG. Les Paul was an endorser, and had almost no hand in the design and development of the Les Paul other than minor things like color and the tailpiece.

You are correct, the design is a classic - and the original is best. The new version is ugly, no doubt. Also - Joan Jett is playing a Melody Maker - NOT a Les Paul Junior or Special.

Back in the early 80's I owned a '59 Junior, cherry red - with the little frets on a baseball bat neck and a single P-90. It SMOKED, and if my chops were better I would have sounded like Leslie West back then.
 
Re: Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

In Gibson's defense, the 2019 LP DC referred to here is a Tribute, not a reissue. A tribute means an acknowledgment without being a total clone or exactly like the original. Sure, it looks like a Junior DC of old in the body style, the P-90 and wraparound bridge but that's it. I don't think the pickguard looks terrible. Is it the classic shape? No, but that's the point! It's a "tribute", and I'm OK with that. I certainly wouldn't mind one of those. I love single pickup guitars and have 3 myself, a SG Junior from Precision Guitar Kits, a Kramer Baretta and a Warmoth Strat.

There's something else too that is often forgotten. The wood itself. The use of Rosewood is very limited nowadays and the lesser priced models will not have the same grade as custom shop models, nor will the bodies be the same grade. The custom shop LP DC is 1 piece mahogany, the Tribute is most likely not. The fingerboard on the custom shop model is indian rosewood, on the production model it's not specified. Custom wound pickups vs. not, etc. etc.. Not to mention the cost of the master builders that actually make them.

Would I buy a custom shop model? No. Would I buy a production line model, you bet if it feels right to me and I have the cash to do it.
 
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Re: Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

That's a lot of content to read on a phone quickly, appreciate the effort.

But if they just kept the 1958 Red LP Jr and the 1960 LP Special TV DC (shown in your second pic) in circulation I would be happy.

Me too, I agree completely. And just like every other important Gibson from the Les Paul to the Explorer the basic models should be available at basic prices, and remain the same year to year so that average Joes can plan to buy one. It's pretty pathetic that the bone-stock two DC's are only available in "Custom Shop" versions. What, exactly, is custom about them?

If you say "fit and finish" then I am pretty unhappy because *every* Gibson should have great fit & finish, it's (supposedly) a premium brand.
To me a "custom shop" (from Gibson) should be custom: I want a florescent pink Les Paul with three mini-humbuckers. OK, that's custom. There is nothing remotely custom about either of the two guitars pictured. So, I feel like I'm getting screwed big time by Gibson. (Who clearly have lost their way, but are trying to get back to goodness.)

The Flying V 2019 at $1699 is what I'm talking about. It's the basic, solid, consensus "normal" Flying V that (hopefully) is well built, doesn't appear to have had corners cut, an will roll out of Guitar Center for $1200 in a few months when the "brand new" rush is over. (The very similar but black colored 2018 V is only $1000.).

Give us the normal more-or-less-vintage consensus LP Junior & Special DCs for a similar price, say (or somewhat lower, the V has always been above the DC's which are historically Gibson's price leaders) so, say $1000 list, and I think they will sell many more. If you want to do year-to-year variations do colors, like they are with the V, maybe doing a few a year and mixing them up. Hell, I might get several.

Chances of me ever buying the science-experiment 2019 DC single pickup model with the ugly jack-input-in-the-pickguard: ZERO.
Chances of me buying a $3800 custom shop that looks exactly like the standard production models of the 1990s and 2000s: ZERO.
Chances of my buying a normal looking DC at a discounted price of $800 or so, DECENT.

Of course, that's what the used market is for, which is a big problem for Gibson, but they aren't dealing with it well with their approach with the Junior.

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$4,700 is a lot of money for a new guitar. But at least it is obviously a super-deluxe variation. You'd have some hope of getting at least some of the premium back if you decided to sell it.
It's gonna really pop out on the rack next to all those basic $1200 Flying V's people bought at Guitar Center.

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Re: Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

In Gibson's defense, the 2019 LP DC referred to here is a Tribute, not a reissue. A tribute means an acknowledgment without being a total clone or exactly like the original. Sure, it looks like a Junior DC of old in the body style, the P-90 and wraparound bridge but that's it. I don't think the pickguard looks terrible. Is it the classic shape? No, but that's the point! It's a "tribute", and I'm OK with that. I certainly wouldn't mind one of those. I love single pickup guitars and have 3 myself, a SG Junior from Precision Guitar Kits, a Kramer Baretta and a Warmoth Strat.

I can help but noticing that it's obviously done to cost cut. A bunch of machining operations are not needed by putting the input jack on the front plate. "Looks good" is subjective, maybe it will grow on me. Both the "normal" Junior's have really cool and iconic pickguard shapes, it's a big part of the vibe of the guitar.

I think "Tribute" is a fitting name, it's like the difference between a tribute band and the actual band. There is one local bar that used to have a lot of great music and it's been invaded by the Tribute Bands. Guys broke up other good-sounding cover bands to form tribute bands. There is a "White Snake" tribute band. (How is there even a market for that?) If I was a White Snake fan I'd really want to see White Snake and not the tribute band. On the other hand a lot of people love these Tribute bands, maybe they like them more than the original even. I could go see the White Snake Tribute band every few weeks at a local bar for $10 if I wanted to, so they are less exspensive, more available, and some might even say more fun. There is a reason all these guys are in Tribute bands and the bar books Tribute bands every Friday and Saturday all the time now. So, what do I know.

I own a Gibson L6-S Reissue which is a very cool guitar, but the one thing I dislike is the jack-input on the front.

I've never owned a single pickup guitar. I've always thought that if I had a single pickup guitar I would want only the neck pickup, which I almost always use, and not just the bridge pickup, which I usually only use once in a while for a solo.
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This is: Gibson Custom L-5CES, 2013, NM, beautifully figured curly maple neck, back, and sides, Charlie Christian style pickup, OHC ...$6,500.00
Again, an expensive guitar but a not a suckers bet, like the Custom Shop Juniors.

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The L6-S. Jack on the front, but not on the pickguard. The original was in production from 1974-1979. Played by Al Di Meola and Carlos Santana. Pat Martino, John McLaughlin, Keith Richards, Tom Johnston, Paul Stanley and Mike Oldfield, Dave Davies, Brad Delp, Rich Williams, Bob Mothersbaugh, Bob Casale, according to Wikipedia. The L6-S was supposed to be the "working man's L5-S, meaning solid body, but the same shape. It's all maple construction.
 
Re: Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

I consider the 1960 LP Special DC to be the finest feeling instrument to my hand they have ever made.

Another thing that varies from model to model is the location of the front strap button. On the originals they were at the base of the neck. Some players seem to prefer the strap button to be located on the top horn, Strat-style. (Looking at the pictures: Kif's is off the horn, Johnny Thunders and Joan Jett are both off the base of the neck area.

Which one do you prefer? For me balance is a big part of a good feeling instrument.

One thing that they did do on the Tribute is move the button to the horn. That might be a "consensus best design". Like on the flying V the V shaped through the body tail-piece is the original design, but the Tune-O-Matic I would say is the consensus best design, and used on most of the Flying V's that Gibson has made in the last 30 years.
 
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Re: Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

I have always considered Juniors and Specials just as much "Les Pauls" as Standards and Customs. When I use the broad term "Les Paul," they are included, without question. I use "carved top" and "flat top" to differentiate between Standard/Custom/Studio and Junior/Special.

Gibson didn't use "double cutaway" in the old days because when they were made as double cutaways, that was the only way Juniors and Specials were made. There was no option; it was simply a redesign of the earlier variant (the "single cutaway"). Now, Gibson tends to differentiate, because they have offered a wide array of variants in recent years.
 
Re: Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

It's gonna really pop out on the rack next to all those basic $1200 Flying V's people bought at Guitar Center.

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Even if it only looks half as good, there's a perfectly good reason for wanting one of these over the fancy schmancy one.

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Re: Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

If I ever get a Les Paul style guitar again, it is going to be a maple-topped double cutaway. I really like the look of those, and they've managed to rationalize the knob layout – even the volume knob is almost in a good spot!

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Re: Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

If I ever get a Les Paul style guitar again, it is going to be a maple-topped double cutaway. I really like the look of those, and they've managed to rationalize the knob layout – even the volume knob is almost in a good spot!

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That is sexy. I could get along with this with a bit different cutaway.

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Epiphone is bringing a double cutaway, but I find the look of the upper horn ugly.
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Re: Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

Yes, neither of those two designs really do it for me. Making a 24-fretter without upper-fret access in this millenium seems a little silly. The Epiphone cutaways look a bit more modern to me, and I don't like the classic knob placement.

Thomann had a really, really nice DC like the one I posted some time back. Unfortunately it has been sold, and all the photos seem to be gone.
 
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Re: Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

^^ I like that one. But while I certainly wouldn’t turn any of them down if given to me, for a great double-cut LP one really just needs to bypass Gibson altogether and look to the Ibanez Artist series.

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Re: Gibson's problem child, the "Double Cut"

I like this design a lot more than the weird 'straight across' cutaways. Ick.


If I ever get a Les Paul style guitar again, it is going to be a maple-topped double cutaway. I really like the look of those, and they've managed to rationalize the knob layout – even the volume knob is almost in a good spot!

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