Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

[chcjunior]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

There's a lot of Gibson bashing, and rightfully so. What was supposed to be this phenomenal company that made such models as the les paul, the ICON of rock and roll guitars, is now a joke.

They made very stupid business decisions. Let's all face it, atleast 75% of their products are garbage now. I can't say how many lps I've played in stores that suffered from bad craftsmanship and tone. The original PAFs ruled. Now what do we get? Whoop de doo... it's the Classic 57s and the Burstbuckers... now those are AMAZING pickups The 490/498s I had in my Standard were absolutely useless.

Gibson just doesn't know how to make a quality instrument anymore. If you want a good instrument from them, you need to buy a historic, custom shop guitar.

I realize that there are people out there that still are loyal to Gibson, and that's great for them, because I can buy a better instrument at much less than what they charge for their subpar woods and build quality.

I will admit that the Standard I used to own was nice, but since I have something better now, I really don't miss it. Wouldn't mind a nice jazz box or acoustic, but that's for further down the road.

I agree completely.

IMO Gibson is over priced and their quality is subpar. Screw Gibson.

 

[BluesNRock87]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

the fact that amazon sells duncans is a good thing. now i can actually spend all those amazon.com gift certificates i get each year around holiday time and my birthday from cousins on something worthwhile...

 

[BluesNRock87]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

but i guess this is gonna hurt guys like lew or blackrose...

 

[Artie]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

but i guess this is gonna hurt guys like lew or blackrose...

Ooooeww . . . LewGuitar and BlackRose gift certificates. I like it. :32:

 

[DeadSkinSlayer3]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

They do have a friggen huge selection of Duncan's though, I've never even seen a stagmag bucker.

 

[Usurper666]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

There's a lot of Gibson bashing, and rightfully so. What was supposed to be this phenomenal company that made such models as the les paul, the ICON of rock and roll guitars, is now a joke.

They made very stupid business decisions. Let's all face it, atleast 75% of their products are garbage now. I can't say how many lps I've played in stores that suffered from bad craftsmanship and tone. The original PAFs ruled. Now what do we get? Whoop de doo... it's the Classic 57s and the Burstbuckers... now those are AMAZING pickups The 490/498s I had in my Standard were absolutely useless.

Gibson just doesn't know how to make a quality instrument anymore. If you want a good instrument from them, you need to buy a historic, custom shop guitar.

I realize that there are people out there that still are loyal to Gibson, and that's great for them, because I can buy a better instrument at much less than what they charge for their subpar woods and build quality.

I will admit that the Standard I used to own was nice, but since I have something better now, I really don't miss it. Wouldn't mind a nice jazz box or acoustic, but that's for further down the road.

DITTO!!! If Gibson didn't charge such high prices for sub par guitars I don't think there would be so much resentment. I don't like the idea of paying hand-made prices for mass-produced, machine made guitars.

Cheers,

CJ

 

[RiffRaff]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

Not to bash anyone but I just can't imagine anyone with half a brain buying a $2,000+ guitar from any dealer without playing if first, then going back a couple of times to make sure it's right, especially a Gibson, my experiences with Les Pauls over the last few months is you really need to search to find a good one (unless you get very lucky on your first try). I've yet to find one worthy of the lofty price tag.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

DITTO!!! If Gibson didn't charge such high prices for sub par guitars I don't think there would be so much resentment. I don't like the idea of paying hand-made prices for mass-produced, machine made guitars.

Cheers,

CJ

Despite the fact that I'm the thread starter, I don't like to get involved in Gibson bashing, as I do support them in their bid to protect their designs....

....But, I have to agree that Gibson shouldn't be charging such high prices for CNC made guitars. And at $2000 a guitar, they should offer better quality control....

But then again, if I could charge $2000 for such a guitar, I'd be doing it too. It's not Gibson's fault that people will pay that much for the name, and as long as the market continues to support their current pricing, they'll keep the prices that high.

 

[Evan Skopp]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

the fact that amazon sells duncans is a good thing.

Actually, if you look closely, Amazon DOES NOT sell Seymour Duncan or Gibson.

Go ahead. Take another look.

Amazon is basically a promotional vehicle and a shopping cart. But they're not making the sale. The sale is actually made by one of a handful of internet or "bricks 'n clicks" retailers. Amazon even says, "This product ships from Musicians Friend," or whatnot. Some of the other dealers who contracted with Amazon include The Woodwind & The Brasswind and its Music123 unit, West Music, Eighth Street Music, Full Compass, and American Musical Supply. What kind of commission these dealers pay Amazon for the sale is a closely guarded secret that even we don't know.

This is not the same thing as buying a CD or book from Amazon. In that case, it actually ships from their warehouse to you. And your credit card shows a transaction with Amazon.com. In this case, your credit card will show "Musicians Friend" or "Music 123" or whomever.

Also, none of us manufacturers had any say in this. If your product was carried by any of the handful of retailers who made their deal with Amazon, then your product just showed up one day on their site. We had nothing to do with it.

So answer me this.... now that you know that Amazon is NOT selling musical instruments, what do you think?

 

[Artie]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

So answer me this.... now that you know that Amazon is NOT selling musical instruments, what do you think?

Cool, more direct info straight from the horse's . . . er VP's mouth.

I never really understood what the correlation was between Amazon.com selling something, and it becoming a second-class product. Amazon is a good on-line retailer as far as I know. I buy from them all the time.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

EXACTLY !!!!!!!!
Great Post, GJ !!!!!!!!
Especially the part about Everyone Ripping Gibson's designs !!!!!!
If ya want Professional Caliber ,...Go Gibson,...not some Rip- Off !!!!!

Except most pro guitarists (I am one) can't afford Gibsons. They are a 'lifestyle' company now, like Harley.

As a pro guitarist, they just don't give me what I need- and if I was going to spend $3k on a guitar, I'd rather give it to a private builder. All that money going to 1 or a few people is bound to help the economy more too.

FWIW, I had a beautiful Howard Roberts Fusion for a few years..it looked gorgeous- every time used it live, I had people telling me how cool it was, and asking how much it cost (that all made me queasy). However I get a better jazz sound out of my Ernie Ball/Music Man with Duncans. So the Gibson got sold.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

Jeez, what can you buy these days without someone thinking you're a sellout for supporting a corporate giant?

I do like the idea of supporting small, handmade guitar companies, but those sure ain't cheap either. Not to mention that when their design slightly slips out of style, you're stuck with a guitar that's worth 1/5 of what you paid for it. Anyone out there playing any 70's Alembic guitars? 80's Steinbergers? Those sure seemed like a better deal than a Gibson when they came out, but how about now?

 

[Mincer]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

Yeah, but if you are buying something built for you, by your design, why would you sell it? And who cares if anyone else is playing Alembics or Steinbergers (actually I sold my Steinberger- a Gibson company- to get a custom Brian Moore...and I got a lot more than I paid for it)...I guess I never bought gear to sell it, or because it was in style.

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

Actually, if you look closely, Amazon DOES NOT sell Seymour Duncan or Gibson.

Go ahead. Take another look.


So answer me this.... now that you know that Amazon is NOT selling musical instruments, what do you think?

I think it shows how much markup there really is at the retail level. Even more reason for me to support John at Blackrose, and my local mom and pop music store.

 

[midnite_man]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

IMO, you don't have to be a "pro" to afford a Gibson. I paid less than $700 for my Studio Les Paul and feel it's every bit as good a player as a Classic or Standard. The stock 498/490 pickups are enjoyed by some, and that's all relative to the player's ear anyways. Except for those manufacturers who opted to install Seymour Duncans before distributing, most stock pickups pale in comparison to SD's, IMO. But that's not an objective opinion by any means as my guitars have nothing but Duncan pickups in 'em at this time because I love their respective tones.
I don't feel Gibson has lost any quality in the last 14 years or so. Not all the woods they build the necks and bodies out of can be identical through the years, so there will naturally be some kind of slight difference in tone although I'm not sure if it's noticeable to the human ear.
Just because a guy picks up a Les Paul at a guitar shop, starts playing it and suddenly doesn't like how it plays or sounds doesn't mean it's a bad guitar. It has a lot to do with how that guitar is set-up in regards to how it plays. The shop owners aren't gonna do anything special to a guitar from the factory, so it isn't going to play as well as one that's been properly set-up for easier playability and better tone.
I'd like to know what the real reason is why some of you don't like Gibson guitars. Is it just the price-issue because you personally can't afford one? If you could afford one, would you buy one? What exactly has made Gibson guitars "cheaper" as a few of you posted? How many Gibson guitars do/have you owned?
IMHO, the Gibson Les Paul is one of the best two guitars ever built for all-purpose guitar playing with the American Fender Stratocaster being the other. They've certainly been copied enough....that must mean there's something people like about 'em.
All the "pros" I see on just about any stage use them, and for good reason. They can't afford not to use 'em....what's your excuse, "Mr. Pro?"

....Bob

 

[59paul]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

IMO, you don't have to be a "pro" to afford a Gibson. I paid less than $700 for my Studio Les Paul and feel it's every bit as good a player as a Classic or Standard. The stock 498/490 pickups are enjoyed by some, and that's all relative to the player's ear anyways. Except for those manufacturers who opted to install Seymour Duncans before distributing, most stock pickups pale in comparison to SD's, IMO. But that's not an objective opinion by any means as my guitars have nothing but Duncan pickups in 'em at this time because I love their respective tones.
I don't feel Gibson has lost any quality in the last 14 years or so. Not all the woods they build the necks and bodies out of can be identical through the years, so there will naturally be some kind of slight difference in tone although I'm not sure if it's noticeable to the human ear.
Just because a guy picks up a Les Paul at a guitar shop, starts playing it and suddenly doesn't like how it plays or sounds doesn't mean it's a bad guitar. It has a lot to do with how that guitar is set-up in regards to how it plays. The shop owners aren't gonna do anything special to a guitar from the factory, so it isn't going to play as well as one that's been properly set-up for easier playability and better tone.
I'd like to know what the real reason is why some of you don't like Gibson guitars. Is it just the price-issue because you personally can't afford one? If you could afford one, would you buy one? What exactly has made Gibson guitars "cheaper" as a few of you posted? How many Gibson guitars do/have you owned?
IMHO, the Gibson Les Paul is one of the best two guitars ever built for all-purpose guitar playing with the American Fender Stratocaster being the other. They've certainly been copied enough....that must mean there's something people like about 'em.
All the "pros" I see on just about any stage use them, and for good reason. They can't afford not to use 'em....what's your excuse, "Mr. Pro?"

....Bob

Right On, Bob-O !!!!!!

 

[Mincer]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

Well, actually, my needs for a guitar are a lot different than yours, I am guessing. Gibson currently doesn't make guitars with synth pickups and piezos (I need these in my performances)...Every LP Ive played is too heavy for me. The volume controls are in the wrong place for me. I have lots of reasons I don't like them...not to mention on the ES175 my uncle had, and on the Howard Roberts I had, I couldn't get the jazz tone I liked. It was always too bright. Their workmanship is often very good, but they are still mass-produced and overpriced (yes, you pay a lot for the name). Like I have often said, the LP studios are great guitars, and worth the money. My gripe is with the Standards and Customs, that are priced out of the hands of working musicians (note, I didn't say 'rock stars'). For that much money, you can design the guitar of your dreams for a private luthier. You can directly feed his family for a month or so. That, is infinately cooler.

 

[midnite_man]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

Well, actually, my needs for a guitar are a lot different than yours, I am guessing. Gibson currently doesn't make guitars with synth pickups and piezos (I need these in my performances)...Every LP Ive played is too heavy for me. The volume controls are in the wrong place for me. I have lots of reasons I don't like them...not to mention on the ES175 my uncle had, and on the Howard Roberts I had, I couldn't get the jazz tone I liked. It was always too bright. Their workmanship is often very good, but they are still mass-produced and overpriced (yes, you pay a lot for the name). Like I have often said, the LP studios are great guitars, and worth the money. My gripe is with the Standards and Customs, that are priced out of the hands of working musicians (note, I didn't say 'rock stars'). For that much money, you can design the guitar of your dreams for a private luthier. You can directly feed his family for a month or so. That, is infinately cooler.

Note, 'neither did I,' (say 'rock star'....lol) and no, I think we both have needs for a guitar that plays great and has exceptional tone and sustain. The Gibson Les Paul delivers on all three counts. Hey there's a lot of things I don't like about Strats and Paulys; like where knobs are located and how much they weigh, and if you can't get around those obstacles and that's not your cup of tea, that's cool. As far as Pauly's go, I've always loved the sound of a good 'ol Gibson Les Paul when listening to a favorite artist/band live or recorded, whether it being a 'rock star' or being a local band. The Gibson sound and tone is where it's at for me, and I'll find a way to master the instrument with all it's obstacles just as I will the Strat. I'm not trying to brag, I'm just saying that those are a few of my lifetime goals....lol....may never happen but I'll have a good time tryin'....lol
I'm sure your synth pickups and piezo could be custom installed into a Les Paul, but it might be easier in a different guitar that would give you similar sounds or whatever sound you're looking for. I know there are Strats made that are Roland-ready out of the factory. It might be interesting to have a Pauly that could plug into a synth...talk about some cool Pink Floyd stuff.
But that's a fairly expensive endeavour in itself, Mincer, if you'll be using high quality electronics for synth purposes....what type of guitar are you wanting to apply this equipment to?
All I'm sayin' basically is that if you want Les Paul sound you need to buy a Les Paul. If you want PRS sound, buy a PRS, etc. Except for the possible exception of the Heritage line of Les Paul-style guitars which are made in Gibson's old Kalamazoo factory, there just aren't any guitars that match the Gibson Les Paul sound, IMO....It is what it is...an all-time great guitar that really doesn't cost thousands of dollars. You don't have to have Gibson's Premium models to get the sound. That's just all flashy stuff for collectors. I see used Standards and Classics on ebay go for anywheres between $1,000 and $1500. The only Gibby I'd buy for $3K would have to be a vintage Goldtop, older 60's-70's Standard or something like that...if I even had the money....lol!
I'll still take my black Studio, on or off stage, anywhere, anytime and will know that it's going to play and sound great. Don't know if I will but I know it will....lol.
I don't think it's fair to say you pay for the name, "Gibson," but I do think it's fair to say that you get what you pay for which is evident in the net result. What's that worth to you? I got tired of wishing my Epi sounded like a real Pauly. Now my ears are happy....

....Bob

 

[midnite_man]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

Geez....that was a long-winded one, wasn't it? :laugh2:
Sorry 'bout that. I used to gripe about how expensive this guitar was or that one was and all, but I got frustrated with playing guitars that were supposedly built from the same plans as the originals - talkin' about Epi's here - that don't play or sound even close to the real thing. By the time you go through everything in an Epi you could've bought a Studio. Pop in a JB and a Jazz and you're on your way to some serious tone. That's all I did to mine; swapped pickups (but have a very aged, vintage JB in the bridge - thnx Rob), set it up properly and intonated it. I have $750 into it. It rocks.
'Nuff said.
....Bob

 

[Mincer]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

I'm sure your synth pickups and piezo could be custom installed into a Les Paul, but it might be easier in a different guitar that would give you similar sounds or whatever sound you're looking for. I know there are Strats made that are Roland-ready out of the factory. It might be interesting to have a Pauly that could plug into a synth...talk about some cool Pink Floyd stuff.
But that's a fairly expensive endeavour in itself, Mincer, if you'll be using high quality electronics for synth purposes....what type of guitar are you wanting to apply this equipment to?
I'll still take my black Studio, on or off stage, anywhere, anytime and will know that it's going to play and sound great. Don't know if I will but I know it will....lol.
I don't think it's fair to say you pay for the name, "Gibson," but I do think it's fair to say that you get what you pay for which is evident in the net result. What's that worth to you? I got tired of wishing my Epi sounded like a real Pauly. Now my ears are happy....

....Bob

I hear what you are saying- I agree that the Studios are the best deals in the Gibson line, and I have looked at quite a few of them. Collectors (IE, non-players) don't want them, because they lack the 'Standard' or 'Custom' label. Fine with me- leave them for the rest of us!! However, I never liked the Jazz neck pickup (or a JB, for that matter!)...give me an APH2 and CC..*that's* the LP sound I like!

As far as the Roland-ready strats, I have played, maybe a dozen of those. And let me say, these are terrible synth guitars. The Roland pickup isn't near what you can get tracking-wise with piezos. They lack things like graphite saddles and nut, and locking tuners, which you absolutely need to make a synth guitar track your playing accurately.

In my Brian Moore, I have the synth/piezo/SD magnetic system- this thing was built from the ground up to get excellent sounds out of all 3 systems. It is really expensive these days to retrofit a guitar with a good piezo/13pin system these days...worse still, if you buy an expensive LP then have to gut the electronics (and silly/stupid to do that). It is not out of the question, however to buy a $600-$700 LP studio and slowly upgrade over time. You get a great guitar in the mean time, but don't overpay for stuff you are going to rip out anyway.