Gig with modeling amp
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TheProphet
Guest
Re: Gig with modeling amp
I've gigged with my Flextone II a number of times and have been really happy with the results when I'm not running any effects. Suprisingly it sounded really really good with P90's when it was cranked.
Out of the two you mentioned I think the common consensus is that the Vox stuff can't be beat, however I only have experience with Line 6 so ...
Maybe Gearjoneser can chime up
I've gigged with my Flextone II a number of times and have been really happy with the results when I'm not running any effects. Suprisingly it sounded really really good with P90's when it was cranked.
Out of the two you mentioned I think the common consensus is that the Vox stuff can't be beat, however I only have experience with Line 6 so ...
Maybe Gearjoneser can chime up
elvhfan
New member
Re: Gig with modeling amp
you guys are probably sick of me saying this...but i feel the need to defend modeling amps (line 6 mostly) for gigging purposes...
i've gigged almost every weeknend for the past 2 years with my vetta (upgraded it to a vetta 2) and i always get compliments about the tone...plus it's so versatile it can create any sound i want...we cover everything from metallica to neil diamond and i can get my different sounds by just changing patches...plus, it's super quiet and reliable...
you guys are probably sick of me saying this...but i feel the need to defend modeling amps (line 6 mostly) for gigging purposes...
i've gigged almost every weeknend for the past 2 years with my vetta (upgraded it to a vetta 2) and i always get compliments about the tone...plus it's so versatile it can create any sound i want...we cover everything from metallica to neil diamond and i can get my different sounds by just changing patches...plus, it's super quiet and reliable...
DirrtyCraig
New member
Re: Gig with modeling amp
Well, sorry I disagree big time,, Its just not Pro quality gear.
I'll just copy what I posted in a similar thread...
"One thing that noone has mentioned. Have any of you guys gigged extensively with his digital stuff? I bought a Flextone 2-12 100 W a few years back and did a regional year long tour. I treat all my gear pretty well, but the motherboard on that thing died twice. Its like a computer. Very delicate. Great for the bedroom but its just not pro gear. Twice I was left stuck out of town trying to get a replacement part for some Pc chip that no electronics guy would touch. Never again.
None of these things are ruggedly built enough to play live with regularly. I'm happily back to using all handmade tube heads again and haven't had so much as an issue since.
...on a side note. My Rhythm guitarist has a Line 6 head with the pedal board right,,, so 3 weeks ago were playing and the footswitch cable dies. Here its friggin CAT5 network cable. LOL... same as you use for a cable modem. Try to find a replacement for one of those on a Friday night at about 10PM,, you can't. Of course we all had plenty of 1/4" backups lying around, but didn't do him any good."
Well, sorry I disagree big time,, Its just not Pro quality gear.
I'll just copy what I posted in a similar thread...
"One thing that noone has mentioned. Have any of you guys gigged extensively with his digital stuff? I bought a Flextone 2-12 100 W a few years back and did a regional year long tour. I treat all my gear pretty well, but the motherboard on that thing died twice. Its like a computer. Very delicate. Great for the bedroom but its just not pro gear. Twice I was left stuck out of town trying to get a replacement part for some Pc chip that no electronics guy would touch. Never again.
None of these things are ruggedly built enough to play live with regularly. I'm happily back to using all handmade tube heads again and haven't had so much as an issue since.
...on a side note. My Rhythm guitarist has a Line 6 head with the pedal board right,,, so 3 weeks ago were playing and the footswitch cable dies. Here its friggin CAT5 network cable. LOL... same as you use for a cable modem. Try to find a replacement for one of those on a Friday night at about 10PM,, you can't. Of course we all had plenty of 1/4" backups lying around, but didn't do him any good."
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Gig with modeling amp
I can't really comment from personal experience, but there was either a thread, or an SD webpage feature, about some major musical event, that had Seymour Duncan and several other big name guitarists playing on a stage with a few Line 6's behind them.
They must have some "Pro" qualities to them.
DirrtyCraig said:
I can't really comment from personal experience, but there was either a thread, or an SD webpage feature, about some major musical event, that had Seymour Duncan and several other big name guitarists playing on a stage with a few Line 6's behind them.
They must have some "Pro" qualities to them.
Re: Gig with modeling amp
I've gigged with a Line 6 Flextone II+ on several occasions and I've found the tone to be decent. Certainly not as good as a tube rig but I'd rather play a Line 6 than, say, a JC120 with pedals. >.< And I've heard cool stuff come out of the III's too.
Digital amps are getting better all the time but until i hear one that can match a tube amp note for note and pund for pound then I'll stick with the big glowin' coke bottles.
I've gigged with a Line 6 Flextone II+ on several occasions and I've found the tone to be decent. Certainly not as good as a tube rig but I'd rather play a Line 6 than, say, a JC120 with pedals. >.< And I've heard cool stuff come out of the III's too.
Digital amps are getting better all the time but until i hear one that can match a tube amp note for note and pund for pound then I'll stick with the big glowin' coke bottles.
Re: Gig with modeling amp
I was also surprised at how well the Flextone III+ sounded when I took the effects off (love that Bogner mod!) and played with the settings. The Vox, on the other hand, sounded great right from when the power was clicked on. The rub for me lies in that Line 6 has so many models that sound great with some tinkering versus the complete ease of using the Vox. I just want to make sure that either one has usable tone in "gig situations". I've heard all the bad things like, they don't cut through the band or are just under powered. I think the technology has matured, it's just a question of everyones comfort level in embracing it.
TheProphet said:
I was also surprised at how well the Flextone III+ sounded when I took the effects off (love that Bogner mod!) and played with the settings. The Vox, on the other hand, sounded great right from when the power was clicked on. The rub for me lies in that Line 6 has so many models that sound great with some tinkering versus the complete ease of using the Vox. I just want to make sure that either one has usable tone in "gig situations". I've heard all the bad things like, they don't cut through the band or are just under powered. I think the technology has matured, it's just a question of everyones comfort level in embracing it.
STRATDELUXER97
Stratoblaster Tone Meister
Re: Gig with modeling amp
Fender doesn't classify the Cyber Twin as a "modeling" amp,but you can call it what you want? I've been practicing and gigging with my Cyber Twin for 3 years and I've had absolutely 0 problems with it...I have it dialed in and I get great tone consistently with it...Best money I've spent on any amp,and I Own several vintage tube amps also.
John
Fender doesn't classify the Cyber Twin as a "modeling" amp,but you can call it what you want? I've been practicing and gigging with my Cyber Twin for 3 years and I've had absolutely 0 problems with it...I have it dialed in and I get great tone consistently with it...Best money I've spent on any amp,and I Own several vintage tube amps also.
John
elvhfan
New member
Re: Gig with modeling amp
my vetta's never had any problems in the 2 years i've had. i have a s plawn quick rod that i love also...but, a) it's not as versatile as the vetta and b) tube amps break down also...
as for sound...there's a huge cover band in this area called darik and the funbags...these guys draw 1000 people to their gigs...the guitar player is an old friend of mine...we opened for them a while back and he couldn't believe the sounds i was getting from the vetta...he was running through a mesa dual rec and a rack the size of a refrigerator...i just had my head/cab/floorboard...all the effects are built it...
anyway, it comes down to different strokes for different folks...but i think the myth that these things aren't gig worthy is false....it also depends on how many sounds you want...if you're in a cover band and need to "cover" many different sounds....there's no better amp...period!
my vetta's never had any problems in the 2 years i've had. i have a s plawn quick rod that i love also...but, a) it's not as versatile as the vetta and b) tube amps break down also...
as for sound...there's a huge cover band in this area called darik and the funbags...these guys draw 1000 people to their gigs...the guitar player is an old friend of mine...we opened for them a while back and he couldn't believe the sounds i was getting from the vetta...he was running through a mesa dual rec and a rack the size of a refrigerator...i just had my head/cab/floorboard...all the effects are built it...
anyway, it comes down to different strokes for different folks...but i think the myth that these things aren't gig worthy is false....it also depends on how many sounds you want...if you're in a cover band and need to "cover" many different sounds....there's no better amp...period!
aleclee
Major General GAS
Re: Gig with modeling amp
I owned a Line 6 AX2 for a couple years and I'm inclined to agree with DirtyCraig.
On the one hand, the thing was a sonic swiss army knife. On the other, it had some evil gremlins that even the Line 6 factory wasn't able to exorcise. My experience with the AX2 has made me a definite tube amp snob--not so much because they sound/feel better but because I don't want to have to send my amp halfway across the country to get the thing repaired.
Ten years from now, we'll see how easy it is to get spare parts for a Flextone III. I know I won't have trouble finding resistors, capacitors, transformers and tubes for my amps.
As for the Cat5 cable thing, it's a wash to me. As a geek with a pretty extensive home network, I have loads of Cat5 cable but am SOL if one of my footswitches with a non-standard (e.g., DIN) connector goes belly up.
I owned a Line 6 AX2 for a couple years and I'm inclined to agree with DirtyCraig.
On the one hand, the thing was a sonic swiss army knife. On the other, it had some evil gremlins that even the Line 6 factory wasn't able to exorcise. My experience with the AX2 has made me a definite tube amp snob--not so much because they sound/feel better but because I don't want to have to send my amp halfway across the country to get the thing repaired.
Ten years from now, we'll see how easy it is to get spare parts for a Flextone III. I know I won't have trouble finding resistors, capacitors, transformers and tubes for my amps.
As for the Cat5 cable thing, it's a wash to me. As a geek with a pretty extensive home network, I have loads of Cat5 cable but am SOL if one of my footswitches with a non-standard (e.g., DIN) connector goes belly up.
Loserchief
SwingingIdiot
Re: Gig with modeling amp
i gig with my Vetta II al the time for already one and a half years. I never had pobems with it concerning reliability and also i get reay great tones out of it and the flexibility is just unbeatable. Well Line 6 modellers are like guitars: everyone likes something different and Line 6 is just not the thing for everyone. But imo it kicks ass and i can just recommend it.
i gig with my Vetta II al the time for already one and a half years. I never had pobems with it concerning reliability and also i get reay great tones out of it and the flexibility is just unbeatable. Well Line 6 modellers are like guitars: everyone likes something different and Line 6 is just not the thing for everyone. But imo it kicks ass and i can just recommend it.
InstituteOfNoise
New member
Re: Gig with modeling amp
I've been using Line 6 gear since 1999 and have never had issue one with anything going wrong. I've had a Flex I, POD 2, and still have a Vetta II HD, Flex III 1x12, 2 Variax's and Acoustic Variax, PODxt that get used many times a week for sessions or live use. I'm a lifer at this point...
I've been using Line 6 gear since 1999 and have never had issue one with anything going wrong. I've had a Flex I, POD 2, and still have a Vetta II HD, Flex III 1x12, 2 Variax's and Acoustic Variax, PODxt that get used many times a week for sessions or live use. I'm a lifer at this point...
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Gig with modeling amp
I've come to believe that modeling amps and tube amps have their places.
For highvolume rehearsal/gigs, the Bogner Ecstasy blows everything outta the water.
I really love my Vox AD60 head on top of my Bogner 2-12 or Jubilee 4-12 for home practicing/recording. Since the head uses a 12AX7 to pass the digital preamp to the solid state power section, it benefits slightly by using a better tube. I put a Sovtek 12AX7LPS in it, and it really seems to have a better feel under my fingers than any Line 6 amp. Also, I don't like the cheap cabinetry all the modeling amp companies use, so I bought the head to use on better cabs. That's the key to good modeling amp tone......real cabs! My favorite features on the Vox is that everything is laid out like an analog amp, with all the knobs right under your fingers.....no LCD screens.
The variable wattage selector, DI, and headphone outs allow me to lay tracks at 1 in the morning, in an apartment. Not easy to do with a tube amp of any sort.
As far as tone.....if you know tone, it won't take you long to have lots of great sounds dialed within seconds. My favorite models are the AC-30, Tweed, Blackface, and the Rectifier, which you can turn into any shade of highgain, using the OD models in front of it. One reason the Marshall models usually sound nasty on modeling amps is because you've got to use the exact amount of gain that the actual tube amp had.
If you turn up the gain on those, they tend to get buzzy and worse sounding than the Rectifier settings. That goes for all modeling amps, regarding Marshall patches.
I've come to believe that modeling amps and tube amps have their places.
For highvolume rehearsal/gigs, the Bogner Ecstasy blows everything outta the water.
I really love my Vox AD60 head on top of my Bogner 2-12 or Jubilee 4-12 for home practicing/recording. Since the head uses a 12AX7 to pass the digital preamp to the solid state power section, it benefits slightly by using a better tube. I put a Sovtek 12AX7LPS in it, and it really seems to have a better feel under my fingers than any Line 6 amp. Also, I don't like the cheap cabinetry all the modeling amp companies use, so I bought the head to use on better cabs. That's the key to good modeling amp tone......real cabs! My favorite features on the Vox is that everything is laid out like an analog amp, with all the knobs right under your fingers.....no LCD screens.
The variable wattage selector, DI, and headphone outs allow me to lay tracks at 1 in the morning, in an apartment. Not easy to do with a tube amp of any sort.
As far as tone.....if you know tone, it won't take you long to have lots of great sounds dialed within seconds. My favorite models are the AC-30, Tweed, Blackface, and the Rectifier, which you can turn into any shade of highgain, using the OD models in front of it. One reason the Marshall models usually sound nasty on modeling amps is because you've got to use the exact amount of gain that the actual tube amp had.
If you turn up the gain on those, they tend to get buzzy and worse sounding than the Rectifier settings. That goes for all modeling amps, regarding Marshall patches.
stratocrusher
New member
Re: Gig with modeling amp
I have been reading the myths for a couple of years now about how modeling amps can't cut through a live mix and so on. However, last year I picked up a barely used Line 6 Duoverb head after they had been discontinued for a good price and found myself not playing the tube amp that I liked so much and had been using for 2 years. I've had a few chances to play with it in a jam/band setting and haven't had a single issue cutting through the mix. My brother, a bass player, who I have played with in a band before and has seen me go through 3 or 4 amp changes and numerous pedalboard revisions was playing with me during one of these occasions when I used the Duoverb and told me that it was the best tone that I've ever had.
I also recently purchased a PODxt and have been experimenting with that at high volume through my small PA system and have gotten great results. So much so that I plan to purchase a small SS power amp so that I can use the PODxt with a 15" monitor that I have, as well as have the ability to send a signal to the house PA if needed.
I will agree with some of the comments about cabinet construction and this has made me wary of purchasing any of the modeling combos in the past. This is why I purchased the head version of the Duoverb and to me the ultimate solution seems to be to use a device like the PODxt through a flat-response monitor or keyboard amp. I mean, why even bother needing a special guitar cab with guitar voiced speakers? PA speakers/monitors can be used in so many applications and I did not feel I was being cheated in the sound or feel when using the PODxt this way. This seems to be the way of the future to me, but it may never happen because most guitarists are bound by tradition.
As far as comments about reliability, at this point I don't think modeling amps in general can really be considered less reliable than tube amps in general. I've heard plenty of good and bad experiences on both sides of the fence. Sure you can talk about one specific model versus another and you need to do your research there, but I don't think the generalizations apply. DirrtyCraig mentions that he switched to all handmade tube amps, but that's not the case for most tube amps anymore and many cannot afford handmade tube amps. Current tube amp construction with PCB boards and such could just as easily fail (and does) and would require time to be fixed like a modeling amp. It's not as simple anymore with most amps that a tech could quickly fix things on the spot. Also, I noticed that both of the stories of problems with modeling amps in this thread were with older Line 6 amps. Perhaps things have improved as this technology has grown and Line 6 has worked out these kinks with newer amps. I haven't heard of as many difficulties with the current generation of Line 6 gear.
One final comment is that I really don't think the story of the CAT5 cable going bad is really a fair example. At 10 pm on Friday night, you'd also have just as much trouble trying to find more 1/4" cable, had you not already had backup cable. It was simply a case of not being fully prepared and having backup CAT5 cable, IMO. :smack:
Anyway, that's been my experience and it just frustrates me to read things on internet forums all the time where others just spout what they've heard about the "deficiencies" of modeling amps, without having much firsthand experience. This thread, HOWEVER, is very informative so far and it is good to see so many dropping in to share their personal firsthand experience.
I have been reading the myths for a couple of years now about how modeling amps can't cut through a live mix and so on. However, last year I picked up a barely used Line 6 Duoverb head after they had been discontinued for a good price and found myself not playing the tube amp that I liked so much and had been using for 2 years. I've had a few chances to play with it in a jam/band setting and haven't had a single issue cutting through the mix. My brother, a bass player, who I have played with in a band before and has seen me go through 3 or 4 amp changes and numerous pedalboard revisions was playing with me during one of these occasions when I used the Duoverb and told me that it was the best tone that I've ever had.
I also recently purchased a PODxt and have been experimenting with that at high volume through my small PA system and have gotten great results. So much so that I plan to purchase a small SS power amp so that I can use the PODxt with a 15" monitor that I have, as well as have the ability to send a signal to the house PA if needed.
I will agree with some of the comments about cabinet construction and this has made me wary of purchasing any of the modeling combos in the past. This is why I purchased the head version of the Duoverb and to me the ultimate solution seems to be to use a device like the PODxt through a flat-response monitor or keyboard amp. I mean, why even bother needing a special guitar cab with guitar voiced speakers? PA speakers/monitors can be used in so many applications and I did not feel I was being cheated in the sound or feel when using the PODxt this way. This seems to be the way of the future to me, but it may never happen because most guitarists are bound by tradition.
As far as comments about reliability, at this point I don't think modeling amps in general can really be considered less reliable than tube amps in general. I've heard plenty of good and bad experiences on both sides of the fence. Sure you can talk about one specific model versus another and you need to do your research there, but I don't think the generalizations apply. DirrtyCraig mentions that he switched to all handmade tube amps, but that's not the case for most tube amps anymore and many cannot afford handmade tube amps. Current tube amp construction with PCB boards and such could just as easily fail (and does) and would require time to be fixed like a modeling amp. It's not as simple anymore with most amps that a tech could quickly fix things on the spot. Also, I noticed that both of the stories of problems with modeling amps in this thread were with older Line 6 amps. Perhaps things have improved as this technology has grown and Line 6 has worked out these kinks with newer amps. I haven't heard of as many difficulties with the current generation of Line 6 gear.
One final comment is that I really don't think the story of the CAT5 cable going bad is really a fair example. At 10 pm on Friday night, you'd also have just as much trouble trying to find more 1/4" cable, had you not already had backup cable. It was simply a case of not being fully prepared and having backup CAT5 cable, IMO. :smack:
Anyway, that's been my experience and it just frustrates me to read things on internet forums all the time where others just spout what they've heard about the "deficiencies" of modeling amps, without having much firsthand experience. This thread, HOWEVER, is very informative so far and it is good to see so many dropping in to share their personal firsthand experience.
Hot _Grits
Buttery Toneologist
Re: Gig with modeling amp
Much depends on what music you play and the volume you play at.
If you're playing smallish venues with a relatively restrained drummer, then the lower wattage modelers may be fine. But if you play loud or large venues, I wouldn't even think about a sub-100 watt modelling amp. I've a/b'd 60 watt modelers up against my 40 watt fender vibrolux (not an uber-loud amp) in a couple of gig settings, and the fender ate them every time. GJ's advice about using a better cab is spot on, too.
As far as brand preference goes, I'd choose vox. The flextones sounds like processed cardboard to me.
Much depends on what music you play and the volume you play at.
If you're playing smallish venues with a relatively restrained drummer, then the lower wattage modelers may be fine. But if you play loud or large venues, I wouldn't even think about a sub-100 watt modelling amp. I've a/b'd 60 watt modelers up against my 40 watt fender vibrolux (not an uber-loud amp) in a couple of gig settings, and the fender ate them every time. GJ's advice about using a better cab is spot on, too.
As far as brand preference goes, I'd choose vox. The flextones sounds like processed cardboard to me.
DirrtyCraig
New member
Re: Gig with modeling amp
Well we agree to disagree then,,
I do have one and only one good thing to say about Line6... they hold their value pretty good. I bought my Line6 Flextone new for $400 on an employee discount at the store I taught at. This was '99 or so,,,and sold it to some kid 2 years ago who likes Limp Biscuits for $500 with the footswitch. NICE..
BWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA... Good riddance, and never again.
TUBES BABY.
Well we agree to disagree then,,
I do have one and only one good thing to say about Line6... they hold their value pretty good. I bought my Line6 Flextone new for $400 on an employee discount at the store I taught at. This was '99 or so,,,and sold it to some kid 2 years ago who likes Limp Biscuits for $500 with the footswitch. NICE..
BWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA... Good riddance, and never again.
TUBES BABY.
Davey
Goliath of Tone
Re: Gig with modeling amp
i'm not trying to be disrespectfull or anything or that it's yer fault.. but CAT5 cables suck.
i work with them every day and for modems and computer networks they do the job, but if you move them around a lot or like in this case use it for a pedalboard, it's bound to break.
you either have em customised yourself so they're better protected, or they will break down eventually.
apart of that.. for low budget, i chose modeling amps.. if i have a medium to high budget, i'd get a sweet tube rig =)
i'm not trying to be disrespectfull or anything or that it's yer fault.. but CAT5 cables suck.
i work with them every day and for modems and computer networks they do the job, but if you move them around a lot or like in this case use it for a pedalboard, it's bound to break.
you either have em customised yourself so they're better protected, or they will break down eventually.
apart of that.. for low budget, i chose modeling amps.. if i have a medium to high budget, i'd get a sweet tube rig =)
Hellion
New member
Re: Gig with modeling amp
I have a Line 6 Spider that I use for smaller venues and I've never had any problems with it of any kind. My only down side for the thing is that it's a little weak on low end, so I have to crank the bass more than I normally would. I'm not sure that it would stand up to constant heavy gigging and a lot of moving around, but then, that's not the reason for which I bought it.
I have a Line 6 Spider that I use for smaller venues and I've never had any problems with it of any kind. My only down side for the thing is that it's a little weak on low end, so I have to crank the bass more than I normally would. I'm not sure that it would stand up to constant heavy gigging and a lot of moving around, but then, that's not the reason for which I bought it.