Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

But if we can benefit from some tonal improvements along with some rugged-tough reliability, why not go for it? Can we not have our cake and eat it too? Dont deny a fat kid of cake!

Lol....What I'm saying is that the P.I. Tube doesn't affect the tone as much as it's there as a functional tube...It also sets the overall gain of the amp...If you exchange a 12AT7 with a 12AX7 in a Fender amp for example,you change the overall gain of the amp...If you were to swap those 12AX7s in that position,I don't think "tonally" you'd hear the difference like you would trying different tubes in say V1.

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

I'm partial to the kt88 jjs

 

[USAPatriot]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

Hi Gang,

Could someone please coherently explain in 10,000 words or less why a given tube would be better or worse in the Phase Inverter slot versus say, V1 or V2? My impression has been that of all the preamp tubes, the PI is a least important as far as imparting tone, it being a circuit more of base function of the whole rather than a tonal function. Yet the subject comes up peripherally or directly quite often. Various people have differing opinions on what is better or worse but they generally cite a subjective opinion rather than the how and why of the matter. I'm genuinely curious so would appreciate some enlightenment if someone has the time. What to do and why...what NOT to do and why... and the theory behind the 'why'. Many Thanks! -Rod-

 

[Animal]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

PI Slot tube choice will affect more of the amp "feel" rather than the tone. I've found a 12AT7 in this position makes the response overall slightly softer, more squishy and less in your face.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

PI Slot tube choice will affect more of the amp "feel" rather than the tone. I've found a 12AT7 in this position makes the response overall slightly softer, more squishy and less in your face.

I Posted this earlier...

Lol....What I'm saying is that the P.I. Tube doesn't affect the tone as much as it's there as a functional tube...It also sets the overall gain of the amp...If you exchange a 12AT7 with a 12AX7 in a Fender amp for example,you change the overall gain of the amp...If you were to swap those 12AX7s in that position,I don't think "tonally" you'd hear the difference like you would trying different tubes in say V1.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

Hi Gang,

Could someone please coherently explain in 10,000 words or less why a given tube would be better or worse in the Phase Inverter slot versus say, V1 or V2? My impression has been that of all the preamp tubes, the PI is a least important as far as imparting tone, it being a circuit more of base function of the whole rather than a tonal function. Yet the subject comes up peripherally or directly quite often. Various people have differing opinions on what is better or worse but they generally cite a subjective opinion rather than the how and why of the matter. I'm genuinely curious so would appreciate some enlightenment if someone has the time. What to do and why...what NOT to do and why... and the theory behind the 'why'. Many Thanks! -Rod-

Read through all of the postings..

What I'm saying is that the P.I. Tube doesn't affect the tone as much as it's there as a functional tube...It also sets the overall gain of the amp...If you exchange a 12AT7 with a 12AX7 in a Fender amp for example,you change the overall gain of the amp...If you were to swap those 12AX7s in that position,I don't think "tonally" you'd hear the difference like you would trying different tubes in say V1.

 

[Soulcrusher_X]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

Lol....What I'm saying is that the P.I. Tube doesn't affect the tone as much as it's there as a functional tube...It also sets the overall gain of the amp...If you exchange a 12AT7 with a 12AX7 in a Fender amp for example,you change the overall gain of the amp...If you were to swap those 12AX7s in that position,I don't think "tonally" you'd hear the difference like you would trying different tubes in say V1.

I get what you're saying. Its true though, and you're right. V1 generally sets 70-80% of the tone of the amp. What little tonal benefit that (at least to me) the PI gives is probably more due to the difference in response/feel or change in gain/crunch/squish.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

I get what you're saying. Its true though, and you're right. V1 generally sets 70-80% of the tone of the amp. What little tonal benefit that (at least to me) the PI gives is probably more due to the difference in response/feel or change in gain/crunch/squish.

Just get a good strong,reliable tube in the P.I. slot and life is good... ;o)

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

I've used the re-issue Tung Sol 12AX7 in both V1 and V2 and the P.I. locations in different amps...These have been reliable and they offer pretty decent overall gain...The EH 12AX7 is also an all around decent tube that works good in alot of situations...Today's preamp tube(I've found)with the most gain,has been the newest version Chinese 12AX7..The Chinese 12AX7s always seemed that way to me though..

 

[Soulcrusher_X]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

The most current Chine tube is the 9th gen, still, correct? I have a few Penta branded C9s and I really like them. Warm, crunchy, articulate, good gain. Ive had some failures with unmarked Chinese tubes, but the Pentas have always been good to me. I USUALLY use a TS reissue in V1 of my amps. Good gain, they have a lot of headroom, and won't break up as fast as most other tubes. I think of it as an "improved" EHX. I find the two to be similar, but I prefer the TS. It seems a little warmer and clearer to me. Both have a really nice grind. The EH seems a little grittier. I tried the Mullard RI a few times, but it just seemed kinda 'blah'. Warm, good drive, but no real character. I might have to try it again and see.

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

The most current Chine tube is the 9th gen, still, correct? I have a few Penta branded C9s and I really like them. Warm, crunchy, articulate, good gain. Ive had some failures with unmarked Chinese tubes, but the Pentas have always been good to me. I USUALLY use a TS reissue in V1 of my amps. Good gain, they have a lot of headroom, and won't break up as fast as most other tubes. I think of it as an "improved" EHX. I find the two to be similar, but I prefer the TS. It seems a little warmer and clearer to me. Both have a really nice grind. The EH seems a little grittier. I tried the Mullard RI a few times, but it just seemed kinda 'blah'. Warm, good drive, but no real character. I might have to try it again and see.

I agree wholeheartedly with everything but the Mullard comments. I think your analysis of Tung-Sol versus EHX is spot on. The Mullard to me seems like it's got very little going on in the high end, and there is nothing grainy about it. The mids are pretty awesome, though. It isn't exactly my cup of tea, but I can certainly appreciate it for what it is. Every once in a while, I put it back in. Eventually, I take it out, but in my Blackstar it really makes that amp sound awesome.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

And it's funny cause a particular preamp tube brand I may love in say my Marshall,but I hate it in my Fender amp...I own "alot" of preamp tubes and have spent the time figuring out what works best in said amp...Normally V1 and V2...I do still use original Mullards and RCAs though also..

 

[Soulcrusher_X]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

I agree wholeheartedly with everything but the Mullard comments. I think your analysis of Tung-Sol versus EHX is spot on. The Mullard to me seems like it's got very little going on in the high end, and there is nothing grainy about it. The mids are pretty awesome, though. It isn't exactly my cup of tea, but I can certainly appreciate it for what it is. Every once in a while, I put it back in. Eventually, I take it out, but in my Blackstar it really makes that amp sound awesome.

Mullard grainy? I said the EHX is a bit gritty, but I think the Mullard is a very smooth tube. It's smooth and powerful, but to me, kinda 'meh'.

And it's funny cause a particular preamp tube brand I may love in say my Marshall,but I hate it in my Fender amp...I own "alot" of preamp tubes and have spent the time figuring out what works best in said amp...Normally V1 and V2...I do still use original Mullards and RCAs though also..

I have a few original RCAs that I found in a dead Hammond B3 organ. Those are my favorite tubes. Smooth AND grindy all at the same time. Really nice just about anywhere in the amp.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

Mullard grainy? I said the EHX is a bit gritty, but I think the Mullard is a very smooth tube. It's smooth and powerful, but to me, kinda 'meh'.



I have a few original RCAs that I found in a dead Hammond B3 organ. Those are my favorite tubes. Smooth AND grindy all at the same time. Really nice just about anywhere in the amp.

I'd say the reissue Tung Sols are warm,the highs get slightly shaved off and they have good overall gain...When we say Mullard,are we talking early or later Mullards? I don't feel an original Mullard is grainey at all...

The RCAs can be either long or short plate and I Like em both,especially the ones from the 50s...I don't use the RCA in my Marshall,but love em in my 66 Pro Reverb(which probably came with these RCAs and the RCA 6L6s)...

Even when we talk about original Mullards,RCAs,Telefunken etc...there were different variations of these tubes.

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

The Mullard to me seems like ... there is nothing grainy about it.

Mullard grainy? I said the EHX is a bit gritty, but I think the Mullard is a very smooth tube. It's smooth and powerful, but to me, kinda 'meh'.

I don't know what you misunderstood. I thought I was pretty clear. The EHX is gritty, as is the Tung-Sol. The Mullard is not at all. I just don't think you're going to get any sparkle or sizzle out of the Mullards. They're unlike any other current production tube (to my ears of course), and that's what makes them interesting. They're not exactly my thing, though.

And John, I'm talking about the reissue Mullards coming from the New Sensor factory in Russia. I have no experience with the NOS stuff, unfortunately.

 

[Soulcrusher_X]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

I'd say the reissue Tung Sols are warm,the highs get slightly shaved off and they have good overall gain...When we say Mullard,are we talking early or later Mullards? I don't feel an original Mullard is grainey at all...

The RCAs can be either long or short plate and I Like em both,especially the ones from the 50s...I don't use the RCA in my Marshall,but love em in my 66 Pro Reverb(which probably came with these RCAs and the RCA 6L6s)...

Even when we talk about original Mullards,RCAs,Telefunken etc...there were different variations of these tubes.

I have some of the grey long plate RCAs. I also have a few JAN Philips, Amperex and GE tubes too. All those older one are really cool. I have yet to try an old Mullard. A buddy of mine has a 60's Twin and it has a full compliment of the RCA preamps and 6L6s. That is a really nice, creamy sounding amp.

I don't know what you misunderstood. I thought I was pretty clear. The EHX is gritty, as is the Tung-Sol. The Mullard is not at all. I just don't think you're going to get any sparkle or sizzle out of the Mullards. They're unlike any other current production tube (to my ears of course), and that's what makes them interesting. They're not exactly my thing, though.

And John, I'm talking about the reissue Mullards coming from the New Sensor factory in Russia. I have no experience with the NOS stuff, unfortunately.

Sorry dude. It sounded like you thought I said the Mullard was gritty. I either read it wrong, or was just thinking wrong. You are totally right about how warm the new Mullards are. They pack a punch too. I hear a lot of guys love them in 5150s to tame the fizz, but keep all the balls. I havent spent a lot of time with mine, so maybe I'll go back and give it another shot.

 

[JLantern]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

So... "a good strong tube" is good for V5. But can you please give examples which they might be? So far the discussion has mostly revolved around tone

One louder.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

I like headroom-y tubes tubes that are not very compressed for the PI. Depends on what amp I'm putting them in, and how I'm wanting to shape the tone. I like:

Sovtek 12AX7LPS for its high headroom, warm tone, and extended bottom-end. I prefer this tube 90% of the time.

JJ ECC803S for its open, neutral-sounding tone with some added bite. Still pretty headroom-y compared to other tubes too. I like this tube if I feel the Sovtek is too dull, loose, and boomy in the amp.

The Tung Sol 12AX7 is pretty alright too. A bit scooped and slightly less clean than these two, but still pretty open and uncompressed compared to others.

I'm not huge on the JJ ECC83S's in this position because they are very narrow EQ-wise, and they compress and distort easily. Shuguang C9's can be alright, but, overall, I think they suffer from the same problems as the JJ. Shame, because these two are usually my "wildcards" for other positions.

 

[RealtyViking]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

A JAN Philips 12AT7WC is what I use in my twin. They can be found fairly inexpensively ($16-18) online. Designed for the military and USA produced in the early 1980s.

Low gain, low micro phonics and built for war. Perfect for the PI position. Also a great choice for reverb circuits.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Good preamp tube options for PI Slot

In my Mesa amps, I have factory Mesa tubes; MATCHED triode 12AX7 JJs from EUROTUBES; and MATCHED triode E-H 12AX7s from thetubestore.com. All seem to work fine, and I would recommend any of them.

Bill