Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

[vintagepimpage]

So I've been lurking here in the forum for a couple weeks... like a dried up sponge trying to soak in all the goodness here. My intent being to find the best pair of SD pickups possible for my 335 copy.

This forum is incredible. It's the most helpful, least-combative forum I've stumbled upon. Reading here sold me on wanting a pair of SD pickups, and not some other brand... Not just because the product is incredible... but the company and community seem to be just as much so.

I also realize now how little I know about tone and sound. Reading here, the way so many of you are able to describe the sound of one pickup vs another... or the sound of one guitar vs another... I'm left feeling like choosing the very best possible pickups for my guitar is going to be a lot more difficult than I thought it was going to be. I plan on sticking around and learning all that I can here, and then hopefully contributing and helping where I can.

So here's where my journey beings with Seymour Duncan...

So I snagged a used "Mike Gee Kustoms" 335 style guitar from my local Guitar Center. What I think I know about the guitar (I reached out to the the guy who made it for any details, but he can't really remember much. I'm going to send some picture to him):

1. Neck: Set, entry level, one piece mahogany neck with a rosewood fretboard... or something that looks similar to rosewood. It's not ebony. Frets are jumbo something.
2. Body: Laminated maple? ...but I really don't know. It's just a generic 335 copy. Could it made of plywood? I hope not, but I don't know.
3. Pickups: Two humbuckers, appear to generic and entry level.

I love the guitar because it's unique and different. Guitar Center was selling it for $100 with a hard case. It's hard to pass up a deal like that yeah?

From my reading here over the past couple weeks here's what I've learned about where I need to start:

Before looking at which pickups to select... I need to know the sound of my guitar unplugged. Where it excels and what it's lacking.

And this is where I realize I need a lot of help. Right now I don't feel like I can say, oh my guitar is bright, warm, dark, etc. So that's what I need to figure out.

My plan is to take the guitar to a couple local luthiers and get their opinion on the sound of the guitar, and if it's even worth dropping money into it. Any advice you all have to offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all!

 

[vintagepimpage]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

The little I can say about the sound of the guitar unplugged and the sound I'm looking for:

For a while I had a Hagstrom Viking semi-hollow (returned it after a month because it had too many fit and finish problems). Unplugged my guitar (referring to her as Sweetness going forward) sounded to my untrained ear a little brighter and less muted, definitely louder acoustically, than the Hagstrom. I want to say that was because of the finish. The Hagstrom has what looked like a thicker? gloss finish than Sweetness, who has a Satin finish and looks like maybe is able to breathe a little better than than the Hagstrom was.

My amp! Yeah it's one of those Mustang I V.2 20W amps. So... can we just leave that out of the picture for now? I want to go to a tube amp... the current amp I realize probably isn't going to give me what I'm looking for below.

The sounds I'm looking to capture with this guitar:

- Jack White / The White Stripes. Does that mean more of a single coil sound or humbucker? I'm down with garage rock.
- Tenacious D... What can I say I love me some J.B. and K.G. Which means everything from a nice clean acoustic sound to hard rock.
- Kyuss / Stone Temple Pilots ... And then I like to get dark on occasion. Drop down my tuning two full steps and just get dirty.
- Classic Rock ... Pink Floyd, Zeppelin... The mandatory stuff.

What do you guys think? Too much for one guitar? Am I dreaming?

 

[Aceman]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

Before you do ANYTHING;

#1 adjust the pickups! Get the heights to standard spec, and adjust the screws to the string arc.

#2 Play it for a while, and adjust to taste.

#3 Then play it for a while. After that answer these questions:

Bass - more/less and tighter or not?
Mids - more or less, and positioned where? Lower miss, middle, or upper kids?
Treble - more or less, and thinner or fatter

And output; Hotter or cooler?


Then we'll talk.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

Going through pickups is definitely a journey, and an expensive one if you're not sure what you want right off the bat.

I agree with Aceman. Get to know the stock pickups for awhile.

Also, consider that changing pickups in a semi hollow is a bit trickier than a regular solid body.
If you like the guitar and want the best pickups for it, it's also worth gutting the cheap pots, switch, jack, and wiring. Once you install Duncans, CTS 500K pots, and maybe the rest of the electronics, you'll have a guitar that sounds like a much more expensive one.

In general, I'd recommend Seth Lovers for vintage correct PAF tone, WLH for more of a rock'n'roll PAF (Alnico 5), or if you want something that handles heavy downtuned stuff and remains tight, maybe a Custom 5/Pearly Gates N.

 

[vintagepimpage]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

Thanks for the replies Aceman and Gearjoneser. Obviously I got work to do. Am I better served trying to understand the sound of my guitar through its current pickups or by playing it unplugged?

Yeah and my plan is to replace everything. The wiring, the pots, etc... Well I won't be doing it. I don't trust myself in that tight space. I'll have a luthier do it.

I want to do the coil tapping on both pickups and I'm intrigued by the triple shots. I'd like as many tonal possibilities as possible.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

Go to a shop and play three or four different semi's unplugged. You 'll see the difference.

But how the pups react in general is key. Remember - you can change the pickups a lot - but not the fundamental sounds of the guitar.

Go unplugged first and listen HARD. Then, get the stock ones as right as they can get.

 

[sosomething]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

Welcome to the forum!

Ace and Jonesy make good points. Get to know your guitar and decide what you want from it before committing to a pickup swap. There is no right or wrong when it comes to tone; it's only a matter of what inspires you to play.

I can't speak to your guitar because I'm unfamiliar with Mike Gee, but it looks like he builds reasonably-priced 1-off guitars in just about any shape or style you ask for. Definitely cool! Please post a pic or two of yours if you can.

 

[vintagepimpage]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

Go to a shop and play three or four different semi's unplugged. You 'll see the difference.

But how the pups react in general is key. Remember - you can change the pickups a lot - but not the fundamental sounds of the guitar.

Go unplugged first and listen HARD. Then, get the stock ones as right as they can get.

I'll be hitting the local GC tonight and comparing the sound of my semi to some of the ones they have in stock.

 

[vintagepimpage]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

Welcome to the forum!

Ace and Jonesy make good points. Get to know your guitar and decide what you want from it before committing to a pickup swap. There is no right or wrong when it comes to tone; it's only a matter of what inspires you to play.

I can't speak to your guitar because I'm unfamiliar with Mike Gee, but it looks like he builds reasonably-priced 1-off guitars in just about any shape or style you ask for. Definitely cool! Please post a pic or two of yours if you can.

I got the guitar used from the local GC. I've chatted with Mike Gee online. He seems like a cool guy. I would def do business with him. Here's a couple pix of "Sweetness":

 

[sosomething]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

I dig it, man!! Definitely worthy of some good pickups!

That neck is definitely mahogany and the body is going to be made from bent wood laminate. Probably maple / poplar, with a solid maple tone block running down the center of the guitar. Don't worry about it being made from "plywood," either - that's how Gibson builds them too! (and always has)

 

[vintagepimpage]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

Took the guitar to GC and hung with their local sound guru playing my guitar, a Gibson 335 and an Epi dot. Both unplugged and plugged in. The verdict...

As soon as I picked up the Gibson my first thought was, "This beast is heavy!" Not in a bad way. It feels solid and substantial compared to my guitar. Even the $399 Epi Dot was quite a bit heavier. I now realize how light my guitar is, which I'm thinking might speak some to the quality of the wood? It does have the center block which runs the the entire length of the body. I noticed the Gibson has a much thicker top on it's body. The GC guy kept commenting how light the guitar was and how thin the neck is. It def has the modern C thin neck compared to the Gibson's much thicker neck.

We spent most the time comparing sound to the Epi. Unplugged and plugged in it sounder thinner and less substantial than the Epi. Not as well rounded, not as much sustain either. I noticed the highs, but mids and lows seemed lacking compared to the Epi. (I should note that I put new strings on my guitar in the last week. NY XL 10s.) Not as warm or sweet sounding as the Gibson.

So yeah in general I was disappointed in the sound.

I was starting to buy into the idea of getting the Seths to compliment the natural sound of the guitar. To not bury that sound... but with the unplugged sound what it was I'm thinking maybe I just go in a different direction with the pickups. Like a 59 in the neck and a custom in the bridge? Opinions?

 

[vintagepimpage]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

Go to a shop and play three or four different semi's unplugged. You 'll see the difference.

But how the pups react in general is key. Remember - you can change the pickups a lot - but not the fundamental sounds of the guitar.

Go unplugged first and listen HARD. Then, get the stock ones as right as they can get.

Aceman I'm looking for your brain powers. 1, 2 and 3 done. My previous post has details on sound I found while comparing to an Epi and Gibson at GC. In short: It was tinny, not full or well rounded, more highs than mids and bass. Sustain was also found wanting. So knowing that, I'm thinking it's not a priority for me to "preserve the sound of the wood." I'm thinking:

- PG in the neck with a Custom (undecided on which) in the bridge

The vain side of me wants zebras, so whatever I choose has got to have that... both pickups. And I'd like to coil split them both... So pickups that are worth splitting would be swell.

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

Unplugged my guitar (referring to her as Sweetness going forward)

I call my 335 copy Charlotte. Thought it was a good name for her.

When you tested out Sweetness did you play with the tone all the way up or rolled back a bit?

 

[vintagepimpage]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

I call my 335 copy Charlotte. Thought it was a good name for her.

When you tested out Sweetness did you play with the tone all the way up or rolled back a bit?

All good guitars need a name. Most of the testing was done unplugged. Plugged in we had the tone all the way up.

 

[sosomething]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

Weight is not necessarily any indication of the quality of wood, though generally, lighter is actually better (for most people), merely as a comfort thing. There is no real evidence that guitar weight has much impact on the amplified tone, in an of itself.

As for the acoustic sound of your guitar being thin or wimpy, there are a lot of factors that could contribute to that. Maybe that's just the natural tone of the instrument, sure. That's possible. But hardware and setup factors could also play a role. Barring most of that, for argument's sake, let's say you'd like your guitar to sound beefier than it currently does, but don't want to add a ton of crazy output that you might get from a designated high-output pickup.

I'd recommend the '59 neck and something like the 59/Custom Hybrid bridge. The 59/Custom Hybrid is a thick, full pickup with tons of harmonic content and extremely complex midrange. There's a certain chunkyness to it that makes your guitar extremely satisfying to play but doesn't sacrifice clarity.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

Weight is not necessarily any indication of the quality of wood.

+1. Weight is an indication of wood density, water content, and mineral content; not necessarily quality, especially the tone quality.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

You could get all crazy and stick a Black Winter set in it. Or maybe a WLH set if that seems too extreme.

 

[vintagepimpage]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

Weight is not necessarily any indication of the quality of wood, though generally, lighter is actually better (for most people), merely as a comfort thing. There is no real evidence that guitar weight has much impact on the amplified tone, in an of itself.

As for the acoustic sound of your guitar being thin or wimpy, there are a lot of factors that could contribute to that. Maybe that's just the natural tone of the instrument, sure. That's possible. But hardware and setup factors could also play a role. Barring most of that, for argument's sake, let's say you'd like your guitar to sound beefier than it currently does, but don't want to add a ton of crazy output that you might get from a designated high-output pickup.

I'd recommend the '59 neck and something like the 59/Custom Hybrid bridge. The 59/Custom Hybrid is a thick, full pickup with tons of harmonic content and extremely complex midrange. There's a certain chunkyness to it that makes your guitar extremely satisfying to play but doesn't sacrifice clarity.

Can the hybrid be had zebra style?

 

[vintagepimpage]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

You could get all crazy and stick a Black Winter set in it. Or maybe a WLH set if that seems too extreme.

I like the sound of the WLH. I'm wondering how it would pair with the hybrid in the bridge?

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Greetings all... Thus begins my SD journey

Before looking at which pickups to select... I need to know the sound of my guitar unplugged. Where it excels and what it's lacking.

Yep you nailed it.

And this is where I realize I need a lot of help. Right now I don't feel like I can say, oh my guitar is bright, warm, dark, etc. So that's what I need to figure out.

And this one is a bit off the mark. You don't need any help on this one because it is all personal preference. Trust your ears. If you feel that you want more top end, then get some pickups that will give that to you. If you feel you want more bottom, then go for a set that will give you that. If you want a nice spongy feel, then get a set that will do that. There is no right and wrong. Just keep playing that axe unplugged and really get to know it. Play it plugged in too, and work out what you like and/or don't like about the set that is in there.
You are the expert on what sounds best to your own ears.


....but if you want a recommendation based on my experience and the list of bands that you have made?:
Whole Lotta HUmbucker set.

last unsolicited word of advice tho (sorry) ....dont spent a cent on pickups until you have an amp that can do them justice.