Guitar cabs : speaker vs construction?

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Dr.J4ckal

New member
Hi guys. I'm currently looking for a 212/412 cab to pair with my combo amp.
I have several options at hand: I can get a brand new mesa rectifier 212, or a used ENGL412 (for the same price), or I can get a lesser known brand that comes equipped with vintage 30s for half the price.
Because It's cheaper I assume it use cheaper construction method and material (MDF instead of plywood, etc.)
So please tell me your opinion/experience, does different construction affects the sound in a big way? or is it all about the speakers?
 
Re: Guitar cabs : speaker vs construction?

Construction is more important, and here's why.

A poorly constructed cab with good speakers leaves you with nothing to improve upon. You could keep trying different speakers, but they will only sound as good as the cabinet.

A quality cab with stock speakers is something you can improve with better speakers if you aren't 100% satisfied.

Personally I would probably buy the Mesa cab if I were you, (assuming it's a rectifier style cab).
 
Re: Guitar cabs : speaker vs construction?

And yes, construction makes a huge difference. Certain materials used to make cheap cabs can eat frequencies like they're starving. Also, baffles, and walls not attatched securely enough can make some nasty noise when you get up to a respectable volume.
 
Re: Guitar cabs : speaker vs construction?

Thanks! I sent an email to the manufacturer asking for more details. I wish I could audition the cabs myself but unfortunately I live hundreds of miles away.
What do you think about mesa road king 212? Are they as good as the rectifier?
 
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Re: Guitar cabs : speaker vs construction?

Hmm this is something I've been thinking about: the classic "Marshall vs Mesa 4x12 cab debate".

Currently own a 1960B Marshall 4 x 12, just put 2 x V30's (Marshall branded) and left the stock G12T-75's in an x pattern. Will have to wait for it to be broken in to hear any difference, but I am saving up gradually in the meantime for a Mesa cab, however long that takes, (probably a year).

I've read Mesa's are better constructed, and the x formation mixing speaker thing is a poor man's way of sprucing up a Marshall cab lol.

So yeah maybe get a Mesa cab cos in the long run you will get more out of it, speaker wise, cos you have a solid construction basis to begin with.
 
Re: Guitar cabs : speaker vs construction?

Yepp cheaper cabs rattle and make weird noises in my experience...I ended up getting a 500 dollar Traynor Vertical slant 2x12 with vintage 30s made In Canada with solid plywood. Sounds like a 4x12 and is dead silent even with tons of volume and bass on the neck pickup.

If I were you I would get a good quality cab and upgrade speakers in the future if necessary ...
 
Re: Guitar cabs : speaker vs construction?

One reason that the older Marshall cabs (up through the 800 series) sound better is that they were constructed of all plywood. After that, Marshall has cheaped out on the regular 1960 and 1936 and other cabs by using mostly MDF construction, which makes a difference in sound. This is the main reason for the escalation in prices for the older Marshall cabs, as the speakers can be changed out easily in any cab. There are some nice sounding Asian-made cabs these days, though, for instance the Orange cabs that are made in China. IMO good plywood or pine cabs sound the best, although some players actually prefer the more neutral sound of the MDF cabs.

Al
 
Re: Guitar cabs : speaker vs construction?

My understanding is that only the back of a Marshall cab is MDF, the rest is ply. Peavey MS and 5150/6505 cabs are the same way. Dimensions, slant vs flat, ply vs MDF, front load vs rear all make a difference, and as for rattles, a decent ply cab can be made to be very solid with a few tools and maybe some glue and liquid nails.

I have a Randall cab I modded into an Uberkab clone that I'd take the Pepsi challenge with almost any cab. I did it partly out of necessity, but I did have a 5150 cab and an Avatar at the time, so I did it partly for the experimentation too. I've had some really great sounding cabs, but this one is only beat by the memories of the halfback Mesa I used to have,.

I hate the oversized recto cab, make sure you try it with your amp before you buy one.

Speaker choice is probably around 80% of the sound vs 20% cab too, for what it's worth.
 
Re: Guitar cabs : speaker vs construction?

The name Mesa always costs more money.
I would not assume anything.
Wait until you hear from the other builder before you decide they make a cheap cab.
I would not buy a cab made of MDF...unless you knew the cab would always be stationary.
MDF is Heavy, and it is susceptible to breaking.
 
Re: Guitar cabs : speaker vs construction?

I also would not buy an MDF cab, for the reasons zzmoore gave.

Mesa does build some of the best cabs in the biz. I have a couple of the Half-Back 412s, a Half-Back C-90/MS-12 212, a Horizontal Recto V30 212, a couple of the 112 EVM Thieles and a new Wide-Body Closed-Back V30.

The difference in the Road King 212 over the Hor. Recto 212: they are the same size, but the RK has both a C90 (open back) and a V30 (closed back). The cab can be run in mono or stereo, and is designed for the RK head/combo, where you can designate each channel to have its specific power amp and speaker.

Mesa also builds a smaller Compact Recto 212 that is 26" wide rather than the 30" of the Hor. Recto.

Some of my other favorite cabs are the small Fender BF "piggy-back" cabs of the '60s--210 Tremolux, 212 Bassman and Bandmaster, and the 115 Single and 215 Dual Showman cabs. They sound great, and are well built. I think the later CBS cabs are also good, but they are really BIG! The 212 Marshall (I think it is the 1936) is also a good sounding cab. And the SUNN company built some tremendously durable cabs back in the late '60s and early '70s. Fender had some good cabs in the '90s with their Tone Master amps--a 212 and a 412.

I don't think you can go wrong with a Mesa cab.

Bill
 
Re: Guitar cabs : speaker vs construction?

King IzzO))) said:
My understanding is that only the back of a Marshall cab is MDF, the rest is ply. Peavey MS and 5150/6505 cabs are the same way. Dimensions, slant vs flat, ply vs MDF, front load vs rear all make a difference, and as for rattles, a decent ply cab can be made to be very solid with a few tools and maybe some glue and liquid nails.

I have a Randall cab I modded into an Uberkab clone that I'd take the Pepsi challenge with almost any cab. I did it partly out of necessity, but I did have a 5150 cab and an Avatar at the time, so I did it partly for the experimentation too. I've had some really great sounding cabs, but this one is only beat by the memories of the halfback Mesa I used to have,.

I hate the oversized recto cab, make sure you try it with your amp before you buy one.

Speaker choice is probably around 80% of the sound vs 20% cab too, for what it's worth.
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Nope, modern Marshall cabs like the 1936 are now almost completely MDF, they at first just changed the back panel to MDF, and later the whole cab to MDF. I think it is now the same with the 1960 cabs. Of course the cheaper Marshall cabs have been MDF construction all along. I prefer the sound of good multi-ply plywood or pine in my cabs, but that is just a personal preference. I think the are more resonant than MDF.

Al
 
Re: Guitar cabs : speaker vs construction?

Mesa cabs are certainly good but do not judge all cabs just on their price.
 
Re: Guitar cabs : speaker vs construction?

Dr.J4ckal said:
So please tell me your opinion/experience, does different construction affects the sound in a big way? or is it all about the speakers?
Click to expand...

It's true that heavy wood enclosures generally sound better than lighter ones, they have a tighter bass and a more even frequency response, the fine details in the sound hold together better at increasingly higher volumes, and that nicer speakers are better for the same reasons. But, I'd add that I don't think you should bother with buying mid range speakers or cabs, and instead should save for a nice package, because they really do sound very different, and you would be knee capping your combo amp by running it into cheap speakers. It won't sound like it was intended to sound. Bad speakers make good amps into awful amps. The other reason is that a quality 4x12, if handled carefully, remains valuable forever. It's not like piece of digital gear that will be obsolete in ten years. Investing a little more now will pay off in the long term.
 
Re: Guitar cabs : speaker vs construction?

It's really sad if 1960 cabs are MDF now, it's not like they lowered their already ridiculous prices.

Wow Marshall sucks now.
 
Re: Guitar cabs : speaker vs construction?

Thanks for the input guys!
I decide to go with the used ENGL 412. I think it will hold resale value much better than the other options. Beside that the seller is a good friend of mine and willing to cover the shipping costs. :)
 
Re: Guitar cabs : speaker vs construction?

Another factor to consider is whether the speakers are front or back-loaded. I have been looking for a 4-ohm cab to use with a '69 Bandmaster Reverb head I've recently adquired, and some of the ones I've looked at have front loaded speakers (which have a removable front grill to access the speakers). I've always used back-loaded speakers, I'm wondering if front-loaded speakers sound that much different than back-loaded?. Front loaded is easier to access the speakers for changes, as you don't have to remove all the screws from the back like you do with back-loaded cabs, but some seem to think that front-speaker loading can affect the sound, I'm not really sure about that. Anyone have a preference, and why?.

Thanks,
Al
 
Re: Guitar cabs : speaker vs construction?

Front vs rear definitely affects the sound. Front loaded cabs have more dispersion and are brighter and more in your face. Rear loaded cabs are usually more focused and more low end oriented. Which one you'll like better is up to you, or cheat and run one of each like I do.
 
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