Guitar Frequency Range

[BlackhawkRise]

I posed this question in another thread, but thought it also deserved it's own. What is the highest frequency that's worth hearing on a guitar? Obviously guitars produce frequencies up to the range of human hearing, but a lot of those you could never hear in a mix or even in isolation.

I guess another way to pose the question, if I create a hard -infinity dB low pass filter, what is the lowest corner frequency I could pick such that the average musician couldn't tell a difference?

 

[Securb]

It really depends on technique and application. In standard tuning, the guitar has a fairly set frequency range, typically spanning from about 80 Hz to 1200 Hz (1.2 kHz). If I divebomb my tremolo or let a high harmonic ride some feedback, that range is greatly increased. However, I have never measured those effects.

 

[uOpt]

With electric guitars the limiting stage is the speaker or speaker simulator. They have their frequency ranges published.

 

[Securb]

With electric guitars the limiting stage is the speaker or speaker simulator. They have their frequency ranges published.

That is why I put the Eminence Wheelhouse speakers in my Marshall 2x12. They have a very wide frequency range and a very neutral, transparent EQ. I think they are the closest you can get to an FRFR speaker while retaining the traditional characteristics.

For a while in the 1980s, I used a Roland 60 keyboard cube to pick up the nuances of my trem work. It sounded amazing, and I should have never got rid of that amp. That is when I switched to the JC120, which is also a keyboard amp, by design.

 

[GuitarStv]

My experience with general mixing:
80-100 Hz is the low fundamental and can clash with the bass and/or kick
100-250 Hz is body (or mud depending on how much you add) and also can clash with bass/kick
300-800 Hz is your low mids - boost for fuller and creamier sounds, cut a bit for glassier sounds
800 - 2.5 kHz is your upper mids - punchy clarity or nasal obnoxiousness
3.5 - 8 kHz is your sparkle
8+ kHz tends to be either hiss or covered by the cymbals

So I'd sit the filter around 8kHz.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I can tell a difference when lopassing at 8K, personally.

I prefer lopassing at 12K, higher, or not lopassing at all. Guitars don't have a lot going on there, true, but they got so little that I don't find it problematic to fit with the cymbals. And what little they got adds to the 3D-ness and airiness of the guitars (to my ears). That is especially true if you like to add some tape saturation or some sort harmonic enhancer later down the line to your guitar or master bus.

But it also depends on what aesthetic you're going for. I do tend to prefer bigger/wider guitar tones. I also mix Melodic Death Metal. Aesthetics for other genres are certainly different.

Also would like to add that guitar tone is more than just fundamental frequencies. There is a bunch of harmonics going on at all times, especially with distorted guitars.

Also, many people on forums try to force on you the notion that "d00d u n33d midz to cut thru da mix" and frown upon running amps' mid knobs low and/or EQ pedals (or buses when mixing) doing some shapintg to the mids. Not always, but often, it's people with zero experience with a mixing board or a DAW. My point is don't be afraid to scoop some mids. I understand you might not be going for an 80's Metallica aesthetic, but cutting the right areas in the mids usually makes your guitars sit in a mix better, feel clearer and more up-front, and let the rest of the instruments breathe better. Just be tasteful with how much and what mids you cut. Remember that guitars aren't the only instrument in the mix too, so you don't want them sitting on top of everything either.

JMO/JME.

 

[BeKindRewind]

For me it really matters what else is going on, so it's a song-per-song basis, but I usually set a high pass at around 200 and a low pass over like 10k and go from there. it just depends. I'll slide them around until there is noticable loss on the tone (in the mix against everything else) and then back them off a little bit. Then I'll go to work eliminating other frequences that aren't needed by setting up a massive cut with a wide Q, find the spots that make no difference to the tone I want, then cut those too to make room for anything else, then I'll go about highlighting the "good" frequencies that I think make the tone stand out, and further eliminating any annoying/trouble frequencies. I'm a big fan of cutting out anything you don't need.

Beyond that, if there are two guitars, even if they are hard panned L and R, I'll set up the filters a little different for both so that they cover a wider range when put together but each stands out a little more this way. In that regard I will also try to set up the cuts and highlights a little different for each too so you can hear both, so if one sounds really good with a boost around 700, I might try to cut 700 on the other one and boost 800 instead so they don't step on each other. Just a generic example.

Don't forget there are Mid\Side EQ options too. If you want to spend the extra time, I find that putting a much more aggressive high pass on the side channels so that the lowest frequencies only come through the middle makes things a lot less muddy. conversely the low pass can be more aggressive on the middle so that the higher frequencies are pushed to the sides well out of the way of the bass , kick and snare.

Lead guitars and rhythm guitars are going to be totally different of course

I'm no pro mixer or anything but I have been spending quite a lot of my time doing music production the last few years so that's kind of where my skills kept advancing after I stopped getting better at guitar :laugh2:

 

[Chistopher]

Yeah mixing is definitely very context dependent. I won't claim to be a big enough expert to throw more advice around than that. I do know that the more personnel is playing at once, the weirder you instrument is going to sound soloed in your in-ears.

 

[beaubrummels]

My understanding is 4-6Khz is about the top end that a guitar can put out.

 

[RanchManSandy]

like string fundamental frequency, or frequency range out of an amp?

a low E at standard pitch has a fundamental of like, 82hz (approx), so a 24 fret guitar at that very tippy top fret would be like 1316hz or something. But of course the overtones are huge on guitar so that doesn't really tell the whole story.

Out of an amp with some distortion I bet you'd be safe cutting everything above 12k, but get yourself an EQ with a spectrum analyzer, Cubase has one for every channel on the EQ page for example, and take a look at what is happening (but always follow your ears in the end). Without distortion I bet you could lower that number.

 

[BeKindRewind]

Yeah it depends. There is definitely frequency content up to about 20k but how useful it is to you is up to you. If you boost it up though you can definitely hear it's there. In a lot of cases you can cut it to make the overall mix cleaner. If you're going for a fuzzy tone they're going to be more important.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

My understanding is 4-6Khz is about the top end that a guitar can put out.

Yeah, most speakers have a dropoff around 5K.

But that doesn't mean there's nothing going on above. Distorted guitars, especially, are very harmonic-rich that a lot of that information makes it through.

It also depends on what mic you're using to capture that. Some mics are very sensitive high-up. Condensers, especially. Spectrum analizers show the information goes down after 6K, but there is still information there. Especially with tube amps. I think the vast majority of people are able to hear it too unless there is some very severe hearing loss.

 

[GuitarStv]

There's sound there, but I don't find it terribly useful sound. Try soloing everything above 8k on your recorded guitar. It's mostly hiss, and most of the time the guitar will sound better in the song without it.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

There's sound there, but I don't find it terribly useful sound. Try soloing everything above 8k on your recorded guitar. It's mostly hiss, and most of the time the guitar will sound better in the song without it.

"Better" is subjective.

Yes. It's hiss. For some, it's fizz. For some it's "nice high-end detail". I tend to fall in the later, personally. Without it, guitars sound boring and flat to me. To me, that's the tubes adding their "magic" with "harmonic richness" and all that nonsense.

But it's all subjective. And it's also very genre-dependant. I play Metal. I like a detailed high-end. Especially since I tend to prefer 90's/2000's tone. But I'm sure other genres work great with a nice extended rich (and unobtrusive, IMO) treble that's not really harsh that high up.

And that's also for my rhythm tone. I definitely like my lead tone smoother and more mid-focused than my rhythm tone. But guitar playing is like what? 90% rhythm playing anyways? At least for the style of music that I'm into.

 

[Chistopher]

Above 8k means different things. Guitar isn't just one sound. The same EQ curve that sounds great on a clean guitar won't always sound so good on a distorted one. Also frequencies are interactive, so that throws that wrench into things.

 

[Zerberus]

It really depends on technique and application. In standard tuning, the guitar has a fairly set frequency range, typically spanning from about 80 Hz to 1200 Hz (1.2 kHz). If I divebomb my tremolo or let a high harmonic ride some feedback, that range is greatly increased. However, I have never measured those effects.

That's only the frequency range of the fundamentals, though.....

If you we´re to hard cut everything above say 1400hz, the guitar would sound slightly dull, with the effect becoming more an more noticable as you go up the fretboard, with the high e 24th fret basically being a 1200hz "reference tone" with no harmonics because the first harmonic (the octave) is already at 2400hz. if you were to play a natural harmonic on teh 5th /24the fret, you would basically hear "nothing" but pick moise because that frequency is already being cut out.

So, long story short, if you don´t want to lose all of your sparkle and harmonics, esp on the high strings, you need to allow reproduction of frequencies up to at least about 5 kHz (which is where most 12" guitar speakers also start to drop off) , better 8 to have some headroom . 10 is already almost going too far for most but actually still makes a modicum of sense for some styles of music, most notably spanish flamenco or intricate steel string fingerstlye playing if you really want to capture the "airyness".

It also makes a big difference whether it´s a solo instrument or needs to sit well in a mix.... The more other instruments are accomapnying, the lower you can set the lopass filter an higher you can set the hipass filter, and in fact have to to avoid instuments constantly stepping all over each other. For ex one of the most importeant things in my rack is the Buttons on teh eq that hipass away everything below 60 hz, which keeps my fundamentals but makes the bassist feel important because my subharmonics arent roflstomping him