Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
- Thread starter lickinice
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Pacer_87
Guest
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
I've tried using folio, but it's difficult because it rips easily. Conductive
paint is better, but it's expensive and not every store sells it. However,
my attemps have not been very successful. I'm curious too if someone
has really made the difference in making their guitars better shielded.
Btw, I've used alumium tape too to shield pickguard. You must be careful
with the edges to make it conductive all over the place. Usually the glue
in the tape is not conductive.
I've tried using folio, but it's difficult because it rips easily. Conductive
paint is better, but it's expensive and not every store sells it. However,
my attemps have not been very successful. I'm curious too if someone
has really made the difference in making their guitars better shielded.
Btw, I've used alumium tape too to shield pickguard. You must be careful
with the edges to make it conductive all over the place. Usually the glue
in the tape is not conductive.
T
TheArchitect
Guest
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
I have shielded all 3 strats I own. I went total overkill and used 3 nice heavy coats of shielding paint and then lined the painted cavity using copper foil w/ conductive adhesive. I didn't find either method particularly difficult. It just takes time and a little planning.
This is the last of the 3 I did but the methods/outcome are virtually identical
http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/Assembledguard1.jpg
http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/Assembledguard2.jpg
http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/assembledstrat.jpg
http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/bodyshield1.jpg
http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/bodyshield2.jpg
With a few exceptions, pickups today come potted from the factory. I have never had a need to repot them.
I have shielded all 3 strats I own. I went total overkill and used 3 nice heavy coats of shielding paint and then lined the painted cavity using copper foil w/ conductive adhesive. I didn't find either method particularly difficult. It just takes time and a little planning.
This is the last of the 3 I did but the methods/outcome are virtually identical
http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/Assembledguard1.jpg
http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/Assembledguard2.jpg
http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/assembledstrat.jpg
http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/bodyshield1.jpg
http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/bodyshield2.jpg
With a few exceptions, pickups today come potted from the factory. I have never had a need to repot them.
Bezmotivnik
New member
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
If there hasn't been a long thread on this before, I hope we can discuss the more detailed aspects of shielding, as I have a lot of questions that I see contradictory answers to elsewhere, such as:
1: Does shielding cause loss of high frequencies through increased circuit capacitance? Can we measure this?
2: Is shielding a waste of time for humbucker guitars?
3: Is shielding overrated because most EMI noise comes in at the pickups, not the controls?
...and so on.
Thanks for any answers here!
If there hasn't been a long thread on this before, I hope we can discuss the more detailed aspects of shielding, as I have a lot of questions that I see contradictory answers to elsewhere, such as:
1: Does shielding cause loss of high frequencies through increased circuit capacitance? Can we measure this?
2: Is shielding a waste of time for humbucker guitars?
3: Is shielding overrated because most EMI noise comes in at the pickups, not the controls?
...and so on.
Thanks for any answers here!
T
TheArchitect
Guest
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
1) Yes. I would imagine it could be measured but adding the shielding clearly did reduce the high end a bit. It was audible by just listening, no need, for me at least, to measure what was obvious from listening.
2) Not necessarily. While humbucker greatly aid the cause of quieting the noise a guitar picks up, the electronics in the guitar can pickup up noise as well. That said, I have not bothered to shield my humbucker equipped guitars.
3) Certainly not overated. Many people claim that the shielding job didn't really make things quieter. My limited experience with other people shielding instruments has fouind that in those cases a) they didn't do the shielding properly or b) they have significantly increased gain and/or volume which obviously skews the measurement of improvement.
1) Yes. I would imagine it could be measured but adding the shielding clearly did reduce the high end a bit. It was audible by just listening, no need, for me at least, to measure what was obvious from listening.
2) Not necessarily. While humbucker greatly aid the cause of quieting the noise a guitar picks up, the electronics in the guitar can pickup up noise as well. That said, I have not bothered to shield my humbucker equipped guitars.
3) Certainly not overated. Many people claim that the shielding job didn't really make things quieter. My limited experience with other people shielding instruments has fouind that in those cases a) they didn't do the shielding properly or b) they have significantly increased gain and/or volume which obviously skews the measurement of improvement.
Jeff_H
Dean Hardtail Fanologist
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
When talking about shielding single coil guitars, it makes a big difference. I never had any luck with aluminum foil or copper tape. I use the Callaham Pickguard Shield, which can be found at www.callahamguitars.com
Callaham Full Aluminum Pickguard Shield
These are made from 0.014 thick 6061-T6 aluminum just like what was used on the early 60's strats. We have made them more versatile by incorporating both the 50's 8-hole pattern and the early 60's 11-hole pattern. It is designed to work with almost anybody's traditional strat® guard, with slightly larger holes for clearance. This shield is far superior to foil by allowing you to tighten pots and switches firmly without fear of breaking through a thin foil. You will no longer need ground straps from pot to pot thus eliminating a potential ground loop and unwanted noise.
This is all I use, and every one of my guitars has been quite as a mouse fart, even when plugged into my high gain JCM 800. Lots of folks will say, why spend the $13, when foil is so cheap...it hasn't worked for me, this does and it's neat and easy.
When talking about shielding single coil guitars, it makes a big difference. I never had any luck with aluminum foil or copper tape. I use the Callaham Pickguard Shield, which can be found at www.callahamguitars.com
Callaham Full Aluminum Pickguard Shield
These are made from 0.014 thick 6061-T6 aluminum just like what was used on the early 60's strats. We have made them more versatile by incorporating both the 50's 8-hole pattern and the early 60's 11-hole pattern. It is designed to work with almost anybody's traditional strat® guard, with slightly larger holes for clearance. This shield is far superior to foil by allowing you to tighten pots and switches firmly without fear of breaking through a thin foil. You will no longer need ground straps from pot to pot thus eliminating a potential ground loop and unwanted noise.
This is all I use, and every one of my guitars has been quite as a mouse fart, even when plugged into my high gain JCM 800. Lots of folks will say, why spend the $13, when foil is so cheap...it hasn't worked for me, this does and it's neat and easy.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
Yes, shielding is worth it. Yes, some high frequencies are lost but it has been greatly exaggerated as to how much. I've noticed a difference in the noise level from my Strat right away. Humbucker guitars can be just as noisy (aside from the typical single-coil hum not being present unless the humbucker is split).
All I used was Reynolds Heavy Duty aluminum foil and 3M adhesive. Worked like a charm. It doesn't look as pretty as the tape does but it's more function than looks.
http://www.erikhansen.net/gallery/My_Gear/.Strat/Shielding/DSC04828.JPG
http://www.erikhansen.net/gallery/My_Gear/.Strat/Shielding/DSC04834.JPG
http://www.erikhansen.net/gallery/My_Gear/.Strat/Shielding/DSC04835.JPG
Yes, shielding is worth it. Yes, some high frequencies are lost but it has been greatly exaggerated as to how much. I've noticed a difference in the noise level from my Strat right away. Humbucker guitars can be just as noisy (aside from the typical single-coil hum not being present unless the humbucker is split).
All I used was Reynolds Heavy Duty aluminum foil and 3M adhesive. Worked like a charm. It doesn't look as pretty as the tape does but it's more function than looks.
http://www.erikhansen.net/gallery/My_Gear/.Strat/Shielding/DSC04828.JPG
http://www.erikhansen.net/gallery/My_Gear/.Strat/Shielding/DSC04834.JPG
http://www.erikhansen.net/gallery/My_Gear/.Strat/Shielding/DSC04835.JPG
Bezmotivnik
New member
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
:scratchch
Seems like something else is going on there...but what?
Everyone lives under the same laws of physics and has the same Stratocasters, so what's the variable here?
This is interesting -- other people say the same thing (and still others say baloney), but according to what I have read, ANYTHING conductive with proper continuity should shield as well as anything else. The shielding paint that manufacturers use is barely conductive at all, compared to copper or aluminum foil -- which is as conductive as aluminum sheetmetal used in these aftermarket shields.
:scratchch
Seems like something else is going on there...but what?
Everyone lives under the same laws of physics and has the same Stratocasters, so what's the variable here?
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
When touching the strings, for most people the noise gets quieter. For those people, they are not grounding the strings when touching them, they are being grounded. For some, the noise gets louder, much like touching the end of a guitar cable plugged in to an amp that is on but not a guitar.
There's a whole explanation on this at guitarnuts.com. I've done the test that he runs through and I'm a bucket o' noise.
The human body. Some people are more noisy than others.
When touching the strings, for most people the noise gets quieter. For those people, they are not grounding the strings when touching them, they are being grounded. For some, the noise gets louder, much like touching the end of a guitar cable plugged in to an amp that is on but not a guitar.
There's a whole explanation on this at guitarnuts.com. I've done the test that he runs through and I'm a bucket o' noise.
Bezmotivnik
New member
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
Is it? I don't know, but his explanations of stuff seem to be widely met with disbelief and rude noises.
Most of the tech on that site seems to be regarded as complete nonsense by nearly everyone I've discussed it with lately -- on this board and elsewhere.
Is it? I don't know, but his explanations of stuff seem to be widely met with disbelief and rude noises.
T
TheArchitect
Guest
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
The shielding paint Stew-Mac sells is quite conductive. The multimeter told me so. I don't know what the OEM's are using
The shielding paint Stew-Mac sells is quite conductive. The multimeter told me so. I don't know what the OEM's are using
T
TheArchitect
Guest
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
I can't speak to body noises but the Shielding/Star grounding works. There is no voodoo in any of that
Most of the tech on that site seems to be regarded as complete nonsense by nearly everyone I've discussed it with lately -- on this board and elsewhere.
Is it? I don't know, but his explanations of stuff seem to be widely met with disbelief and rude noises.
I can't speak to body noises but the Shielding/Star grounding works. There is no voodoo in any of that
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
Here's a question, have those folks done any of those methods?
As one who has done it a few times, I can tell you that it's not nonsense. If others think it is, then so be it. They can have their noisey guitars.
Most of the tech on that site seems to be regarded as complete nonsense by nearly everyone I've discussed it with lately -- on this board and elsewhere.
Is it? I don't know, but his explanations of stuff seem to be widely met with disbelief and rude noises.
Here's a question, have those folks done any of those methods?
As one who has done it a few times, I can tell you that it's not nonsense. If others think it is, then so be it. They can have their noisey guitars.
Bezmotivnik
New member
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
All of the pickups I've examined so far in the thirty-five or so electric guitars and basses here are already potted and (to some extent or other) most of the instruments are already shielded.
I haven't messed with it.
I am sorely tempted to re-do some messy factory wiring, but have not gotten around to it. If I do, I may do some shielding -- but I want a clearer technical understanding of the process before I do.
To answer your question, no.
All of the pickups I've examined so far in the thirty-five or so electric guitars and basses here are already potted and (to some extent or other) most of the instruments are already shielded.
I haven't messed with it.
I am sorely tempted to re-do some messy factory wiring, but have not gotten around to it. If I do, I may do some shielding -- but I want a clearer technical understanding of the process before I do.
ashbass
New member
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
I bought the pint of StewMac shielding paint and did my '54 Reissue Les Paul up with it. The guitar is p90 equipped so it had the hum to deal with for sure. I painted all the cavities and let the paint run through all the wire channels as well.
There is no hum anymore. It is amazing how quiet the guitar is. I have overhead flourescent lights in the guitar room and even holding the face of the guitar up within a foot of the light there is no objectionable noise.
As I work on my Ibanez guitars I'm sheilding each of them as well. Best $25 mod I've made for sound quality yet.
I bought the pint of StewMac shielding paint and did my '54 Reissue Les Paul up with it. The guitar is p90 equipped so it had the hum to deal with for sure. I painted all the cavities and let the paint run through all the wire channels as well.
There is no hum anymore. It is amazing how quiet the guitar is. I have overhead flourescent lights in the guitar room and even holding the face of the guitar up within a foot of the light there is no objectionable noise.
As I work on my Ibanez guitars I'm sheilding each of them as well. Best $25 mod I've made for sound quality yet.
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Bezmotivnik
New member
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
A number of people I know have done his mods with poor results. Did they screw something up? Maybe, I can't say.
Particularly hooted down is his obsession with star grounding and ground loops, which supposedly are complete non-issues in a low-voltage guitar circuit.
A number of people I know have done his mods with poor results. Did they screw something up? Maybe, I can't say.
Bezmotivnik
New member
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
Seems like there would almost have to be.
Considering that the stuff is apparently just paint that is marginally conductive, I wonder if there is some more reasonably-priced substitute that accomplishes the same thing.
Seems like there would almost have to be.
T
TheArchitect
Guest
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
DO you know what conductive means? Having done 3 guitars I can assure there is nothing marginal about the conductivity of the paint. Simple multimeter will demonstrate that
DO you know what conductive means? Having done 3 guitars I can assure there is nothing marginal about the conductivity of the paint. Simple multimeter will demonstrate that
Bezmotivnik
New member
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
My multimeter told me it was just barely able to pass electricity.
When you jab the probes into yours, what sort of DCR are you seeing?
The OEM stuff here shows in the Ks.
Different stuff, apparently.
My multimeter told me it was just barely able to pass electricity.
When you jab the probes into yours, what sort of DCR are you seeing?
The OEM stuff here shows in the Ks.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Guitar shielding/Pup Potting
Something wasn't right then. I've had my share of mess-ups with it too. If I forgot to star ground or remove an unnecessary wire, then I would have noise issues still. Luckily with my latest shield job, it was right-on right away. I still need to add the protective capacitor to it, just haven't gotten one of the caps yet.
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