Gypsy Jazz

larry_emder

larry_emder

New member
The guy from the mama bear vids:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Tm5Ikl1AXw&search=hellecasters
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ISh_annkCpU&search=hellecasters

Loving this style of music.

I Recorded the chord progression of 'shine' at about one third of the the speed that is on the vid, and tried to play around the chords. Good fun, and really tricky to play!

Couple of questions:

* What else can i play other than the chord tones (ie. 1-3-5-b7 over a 7 chord) and The scale thats its in (C maj i think)

* I'm having difficulty playing THROUGH the chords (ie. i seem to stop/slow down when it hits the next chord.....takes me time to find my feet). Any tips on how to play through chords better??

* Let me make sure i've got the chords right.....this is what i think they are, feel free to give you're opinions (i'm disregarding the intro, the 1st 4 bars - which are just the last 4 bars of the B section):

A section: /C /G7 /C /G7 /E7(b9?) /A7 /D7(add 9?) /G7 (#5?)

B Section: /C /G7 /E7 (b9?)/A7 /F7, F#dim(?)/C, A7/D add9 G7/C, G7/

Do you think these chords are correct? (and do their extensions work?) (and help me figure out what extensions he is using on the vid)

For the F# diminished chord, I always get confused about whether i play a diminished or half diminished. What is it for this song? Diminished sounds better to me on this track.

I hope you can figure out my dodgy chord chart.


Add any comments you wish, show me how YOU would go about soloing over this track - would you just arpeggiate the chord tones, or play different scales over it ...or both??..

(might make a backing track of this in a couple of days if people are keen....)

(i hope you peoples know what i'm on about)

Ps. fantastic bassing (solo) and drumming in this tune......only using a snare and hi hat too)
 
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Re: Gypsy Jazz

I'm never sure about earing out progressions, but if I follow the bass player and assume he is playing roots I get something like :

|B dim E7 | C7#5 Bb7b5 |B dim E7 | C7#5 Bb7b5 | .... for the first couple of bars.

Like I said, my ear is usually close, but the ear always misses something! LOL! I'll try to analyze further and maybe post a sample solo for you later. Although I don't have recording equipment I can probably write something and convert it to mp3 along with sheet music.

The whole thing sounds pretty Locrian to me right now. I would use the Dim chord as a hint to the mood of the rest of the progression. What do you think? Am I close?
 
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That doesnt sound right to me - i'm still sticking to my chord progression (made one adjustment though!).

I think its one of those songs where you could play a whole bunch of substitute chords over it and it still would sound 'right' eg. That tritone substition in a 2-5-1 progression - substitute

/D9, G7/C /

For

/D9 Db9 C/

As long as the bass player is still playing a G note on the Db9 chord

Some more opinions would be good.
 
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You're right I'm way off! Don't know why! LOL! I'll try again. The really doesn't sound like a chord thing is happening, just suggested. Everyone is picking!
 
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Ok I think I figured it out. Here is my latest take on it.

Here's the MP3 of my transcritpion:

http://70.241.187.105/nirvana/cstrike/gypsy_Render.mp3

The fake sheet:

http://70.241.187.105/nirvana/cstrike/gypsy_fake.tif

The rythm guitar part:

http://70.241.187.105/nirvana/cstrike/gypsy_guitar.tif

Hope your system can open the tifs. If not download a tif reader. There should be a free one or a trial version of a tif reader somwhere.

Let me know if you agree with my latest transcription. The bass part at the head was a big fat Cmaj7b5 arpeggio! LOL! There was a rythm guitarist after all, but I couldn't hear him.
 
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I was wanting to know about the second song actually , "shine".

But yeah, you're pretty right for the first song. good stuff.
 
Re: Gypsy Jazz

Well I guess that means that I got my score writing practice for today! LOL! I'll try the other one tomorrow unless someone else beats me to it.:smack:

PS -- Thanks
 
Re: Gypsy Jazz

One quick tip! Go through the chord progression and try to find notes that are common from one chord to the next. For example C and G7 have GABDCC#E. Like this:

G7: G=root, A=9, B=3, D=5, C=11, C#=#11 E=6/13
C : G=5, A=6/13, B=maj7, D=9, C=root, C#=b9, E=3rd

Once common notes in the harmony are identified they can be used as pivot points to the next chord or scale. Naturally all of the extensions above will only work in the proper context though. If the music is a real progressive piece for instance. For simple harmonic styles that are more traditional I would shy away from extensions above the 9th unless I quickly resolved them to the next chord or scale by using a quick stepwise or half-step resolution. Knowing the common notes and possible resolutions should help you get from one chord to the next seamlessly.

Also rather than playng a scale or mode for each chord change, identifiy only the major key changes and change modes when the key changes. For example it would be theoretically correct to play a D dorian against a C chord and then do a myxolydian on G7, but in terms of set theory they are really the same friggin scale! After all C, G7 is the key of C. So why over tax your brain. The only valid reason to switch scales between C and G7 would be for situations where it is desirable to add accidentals/blue notes. Heres and example:

C - play Gm scale/G Aolean
G7 - D harmonic minor

The choice of these two scales creates accidentals at key intervals. They create a more bluesy sound than just playing a scale with no accidentals. Also the introduction of these accidentals creates the opportunity for resolution and smooth transition to the next chord or major key change as mentioned above.
 
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Thanks heaps.....wish i could solo like that on guitar!

Everything's double speed though!!! (compared to the video) too fast for me to solo on
 
Re: Gypsy Jazz

And fwiw, the end chord progression is / Dmin (or maj?)/ G7/ C/ A7/ (I think)

And i'm pretty sure he ends on a C 6/9 b5 (I think thats what ya call it...someone clarify this for me!!!) - either way, i LOVE that chord!!!


The chord i'm talkin about is:
(ascending)
C, E, A, D, F#
 
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Oh and i love that bit at the end where he's strumming the two A notes (2 octaves apart) over that end chord progression (2516 one), then the violin comes in with this awesome counter riff......

I'm hopeless at explaining it, but i hope ya get what i mean!


The musicianship is just fan bloody tastic in this tune....every player holds their own
 
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No problem! I can slow it down and repost it as fast or as slow as you like. What tempo would you like to have it in? Quarter note = ?
 
Re: Gypsy Jazz

Cool! I'll just replace the files on my server so all you have to do is go back to the original links in my previous post to get the new files.

By the way sure you can solo like that! You just probably need to figure out what camp you belong in. You see as far as improv goes there are several types of dudes! Those that improv by ear, those that work thier solos out on paper and rehearse them and those that try to do it spontaneously by playing scales and arpeggios. Which group do you fall in?
 
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Well i'm definately not a 'do it on paper' dude, i hate reading music (but am trying to get better at it)

I figure out most stuff by ear......but for fast solos like that i cant rely on ear alone, so am trying to use scales + arpeggios.

When the chord goes to E7 i can play in A minor right?
 
Re: Gypsy Jazz

I hear you on that! I hate the idea of rehearsing solos! It's really not improv but at the same time it has its merits. You see the real "original" masters of improv had tremendous ear training. Some had perfect pitch.

I had a conversation once with Jimmy Smith, the legendary organist, back in my college days. He played with Wes Montgomery. Cats like Jimmy and Wes could get up on stage and play a tune they never heard before. They didn't even have to know the changes! They could just whale away at it like they had been playing it all of their lives! Some ppl even say that the worlds greatest guitar instructor is an organist named Jimmy Smith! When they gigged they didn't even know what they were going to play on a given night! They would just call something out.

Cats that rehearse solos or try to match chords with scales and arpeggios fall by the wayside when they try to hang with the monsters of ear training improv. You see the idea of playing scales and arpeggios with chords was ment as an analytical tool and a good training tool. Matching scales and such with chords is meant to provide you with a "SET" of notes to pick from that are compatable with a given chords tonality. It is quite a mathematical concept based on "SET" theory. But that is all it is meant to do. It was never intended for players to literally "play a scale". The concept is simply ment to provide the player with a quick reference if you will.

You can think of matching chords and scales like this:

A Karate instructor teaches his students kata. But if that student was to enter the Ultimate Fighting Championship you wouldn't expect him to try to do a kata when his opponent attacked would you? Real combat as in real life musical performance is in the moment. Particularly where jazz is concerned. You might get to play a couple of notes from your scale but all of a sudden here comes the next chord! LOL! Now you not only have to pick a new scale, but you have to resolve your way into the new scale! By the time you play another couple of notes then OOPS here comes a key change! LOL!

What you end up with is a bunch of scale fragments instead of "scales" because the complex progressions dictate that you have to change so often. From a conceptual point of view calling the mere fragments of scales "scales" is like calling a hubcap an automobile or trying to drive your rear bumper to the office! LOL!
 
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Some good analogies there! I'm a fan of jimmy smith and wes - Listening to their version of 'caravan' right now! Another interesting tune to solo through
 
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Listening to it (caravan) i can see what you mean...wes doesnt sound like he knows the theme too well, kinda stumbles through it (Might be on purpose though!!).....but when it comes to solo time, he knows exactly whats goin on!!!

Another thing theyre good at is playing different chord extensions and inversions on the fly, just off the cuff.......i struggle with single notes!

jimmy plays better than wes in this track though!!! Love that organ sound
 
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