J
Hamer shutting down?
- Thread starter frankfalbo
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Drunken Bowling
New member
Re: Hamer shutting down?
Tom Dumont from No Doubt played them pretty much exclusively in the mid 90's. Also Rick Nielsen. Paul Stanley used one on stage when Kiss played Australia in 1980. I'm sure at the time he called it, "The best guitar I've ever played", as he does with every guitar he's ever played.
Tom Dumont from No Doubt played them pretty much exclusively in the mid 90's. Also Rick Nielsen. Paul Stanley used one on stage when Kiss played Australia in 1980. I'm sure at the time he called it, "The best guitar I've ever played", as he does with every guitar he's ever played.
Gamera
New member
Re: Hamer shutting down?
Pontiac was run into the ground by dumbasses and bean counters IMHO. I think there's life in the name and the brand could still have filled a niche.
Chevy on the other hand...but I digress.
Pontiac was run into the ground by dumbasses and bean counters IMHO. I think there's life in the name and the brand could still have filled a niche.
Chevy on the other hand...but I digress.
Ashurbanipal
Well-known member
Re: Hamer shutting down?
The bottom line is that it's about the people making them. Premises and ownership corporations don't matter (unless they're telling you what you can/can't do). While, Jol was there from the beginning, he wasn't the only one making guitars, and the guitars that were being made after he left certainly hark back more to the 'out there' stuff from the 80s/early 90s, while Jol's last 10 or so years were focused more on archtops and singlecut designs.
So maybe after Jol left, semi-comatose on life support, basic bodily processes still functioning, and decision as to whether switch it off a matter of course. In theory, they could've kept going, ignoring things like profitability etc., but other overwhelming factors led to pulling the plug.
The bottom line is that it's about the people making them. Premises and ownership corporations don't matter (unless they're telling you what you can/can't do). While, Jol was there from the beginning, he wasn't the only one making guitars, and the guitars that were being made after he left certainly hark back more to the 'out there' stuff from the 80s/early 90s, while Jol's last 10 or so years were focused more on archtops and singlecut designs.
So maybe after Jol left, semi-comatose on life support, basic bodily processes still functioning, and decision as to whether switch it off a matter of course. In theory, they could've kept going, ignoring things like profitability etc., but other overwhelming factors led to pulling the plug.
Re: Hamer shutting down?
If I had to point my finger at one person, it would be Jol. Late 90s-2000s, he had a habit of not building anything HE didn't like. That's not how to run a company. I *hear* from insiders that he shot down several large orders from dealers because he didn't like the specs or the models. Even worse? Some of those custom orders that were shot down would come back as NAMM guitars shortly down the road. That's a kick in the nuts.
He only wanted to build cork sniffing, high-zoot guitars that nobody could afford. Fender gave them a solid backing, to start with, and then when things still didn't go well after Jol left, THAT'S when they started building anything you could dream up, i.e., the 80's throwback stuff that they focused on in the last couple years' worth of blogs-after they went Custom Shop-only. They even had them building Hamers on the side with their main focus being Guild acoustics. FWIW, the same guys were building fantastic quality instruments. My 08 Vector was every bit as good as my 97, nearly identical, in fact. I'll bet anybody $100 that the last Hamer to roll off that line is as good as anything they ever built, if not better because it's the end of an era and they know it.
IMHO, they tried, but they couldn't come back from Jol's mismanagement.
They never could have competed with Gibson, anyway-too low production. They were truly hand-built by a small shop in CT.
If I had to point my finger at one person, it would be Jol. Late 90s-2000s, he had a habit of not building anything HE didn't like. That's not how to run a company. I *hear* from insiders that he shot down several large orders from dealers because he didn't like the specs or the models. Even worse? Some of those custom orders that were shot down would come back as NAMM guitars shortly down the road. That's a kick in the nuts.
He only wanted to build cork sniffing, high-zoot guitars that nobody could afford. Fender gave them a solid backing, to start with, and then when things still didn't go well after Jol left, THAT'S when they started building anything you could dream up, i.e., the 80's throwback stuff that they focused on in the last couple years' worth of blogs-after they went Custom Shop-only. They even had them building Hamers on the side with their main focus being Guild acoustics. FWIW, the same guys were building fantastic quality instruments. My 08 Vector was every bit as good as my 97, nearly identical, in fact. I'll bet anybody $100 that the last Hamer to roll off that line is as good as anything they ever built, if not better because it's the end of an era and they know it.
IMHO, they tried, but they couldn't come back from Jol's mismanagement.
They never could have competed with Gibson, anyway-too low production. They were truly hand-built by a small shop in CT.
jmh151
Active member
Hamer shutting down?
Pretty much this. Personally, in the later years, there were other manufacturers producing better guitars for the price. Competition like PRS came along, Hamers were nowhere to be seen in stores to try before you buy, and the quality of Gibson came up. All in all, the market is inundated with guitars, imports, and Hamer did little to nothing to promote their brand, which the newer generation completely forgot about
Pretty much this. Personally, in the later years, there were other manufacturers producing better guitars for the price. Competition like PRS came along, Hamers were nowhere to be seen in stores to try before you buy, and the quality of Gibson came up. All in all, the market is inundated with guitars, imports, and Hamer did little to nothing to promote their brand, which the newer generation completely forgot about
Re: Hamer shutting down?
I meant to mention that and forgot. I can't remember the last time I saw a real Hamer advertisement, especially when building BIG $$ geets like Monacos, SuperPros, and Talladegas. Where were the endorsees? Tom Dumont, as mentioned before, did a good bit to keep them relevant in the 90s. I kinda wondered what was up with the few pics I'd seen of Rick Nielson's 5 neck monstrosity...with a Gibson logo.
I meant to mention that and forgot. I can't remember the last time I saw a real Hamer advertisement, especially when building BIG $$ geets like Monacos, SuperPros, and Talladegas. Where were the endorsees? Tom Dumont, as mentioned before, did a good bit to keep them relevant in the 90s. I kinda wondered what was up with the few pics I'd seen of Rick Nielson's 5 neck monstrosity...with a Gibson logo.
jmh151
Active member
Hamer shutting down?
Basically Hamer did extremely well when Gibson quality control was bad, and they made better Gibsons than Gibson did..
Gibson got better, PRS made better guitars than both, so Hamer really had no claim to fame anymore....
I've never played a USA Hamer, only a few of the imports, and I didn't care for the neck joints or neck profile.
Basically Hamer did extremely well when Gibson quality control was bad, and they made better Gibsons than Gibson did..
Gibson got better, PRS made better guitars than both, so Hamer really had no claim to fame anymore....
I've never played a USA Hamer, only a few of the imports, and I didn't care for the neck joints or neck profile.
Ashurbanipal
Well-known member
Re: Hamer shutting down?
So, pursuing this argument further, do you think Jol should've left sooner? The guitars he's building now by himself are essentially a continuation of what he was pursuing in his last years at Hamer.
This one's in shop in town. $3.8k. Don't personally care for flames, binding, inlays, but man...
So, pursuing this argument further, do you think Jol should've left sooner? The guitars he's building now by himself are essentially a continuation of what he was pursuing in his last years at Hamer.
This one's in shop in town. $3.8k. Don't personally care for flames, binding, inlays, but man...
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BTMN
LifeIsGoodologist
Re: Hamer shutting down?
Having met Paul Hamer a couple times now, I'm thinking Hamer was done a long time ago.
While he is a true gentleman and has never said a harsh word about his departure way back when, I just get that feeling. Were I to dream, love to see him at the helm of the brand again.
Having met Paul Hamer a couple times now, I'm thinking Hamer was done a long time ago.
While he is a true gentleman and has never said a harsh word about his departure way back when, I just get that feeling. Were I to dream, love to see him at the helm of the brand again.
jmh151
Active member
Re: Hamer shutting down?
And I agree with you on that which brings me back to my point- over at least the last 10 years, if there were Hamers in stores, they were imports, not American made- and this affects everyones perception of the brand.
I did play some older USA Studios and they were top notch
And I agree with you on that which brings me back to my point- over at least the last 10 years, if there were Hamers in stores, they were imports, not American made- and this affects everyones perception of the brand.
I did play some older USA Studios and they were top notch
Re: Hamer shutting down?
So...which is it, or are you just getting off on talking about that which you know not?
So...which is it, or are you just getting off on talking about that which you know not?
jmh151
Active member
Re: Hamer shutting down?
I, sir, do not get off on pontificating that which I do not know. If I am not mistaken, the imports are made to the same blueprints and designs as the USA models, which I confirmed when I played a USA Studio. Both had cumberson neck heels and with my big hands, hard to reach the top frets. The imports and USA felt the same. I own an USA PRS, and the access to the highest frets (24), is much better than the 22 on the Hamer. The control layout on a Hamer was a bit awkward as well..
I played recent USA Deans in stores, and belief, quality wise, they are every bit as good as a PRS, and I'm sure a USA hamer is every bit as good too.
The point I'm making is Hamer came along when Gibson had poor quality control. Now that everyone, including Gibson, has improved quality control, a company like Hamer has to go one extra step and offer something the others dont.
I, sir, do not get off on pontificating that which I do not know. If I am not mistaken, the imports are made to the same blueprints and designs as the USA models, which I confirmed when I played a USA Studio. Both had cumberson neck heels and with my big hands, hard to reach the top frets. The imports and USA felt the same. I own an USA PRS, and the access to the highest frets (24), is much better than the 22 on the Hamer. The control layout on a Hamer was a bit awkward as well..
I played recent USA Deans in stores, and belief, quality wise, they are every bit as good as a PRS, and I'm sure a USA hamer is every bit as good too.
The point I'm making is Hamer came along when Gibson had poor quality control. Now that everyone, including Gibson, has improved quality control, a company like Hamer has to go one extra step and offer something the others dont.
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: Hamer shutting down?
It is because they are smart buisiness people.......or perhaps not.....too much school and too little reality.
It is because they are smart buisiness people.......or perhaps not.....too much school and too little reality.
zenmindbeginner
New member
Re: Hamer shutting down?
I'd go as far as to say "when Kaman bought Hamer"
That was when the import line started... this was the WORST thing for Hamer to possibly do at that point.
Hamer didn't have enough market share to warrant an import line IMHO.
The company soon suffered from a customer disconnect and confusion between their USA and import line.
This is around the time that they left Arlington Heights for New Hartford.
Hamer also couldn't get it's two highest profile players (Stone Gossard and Jeff Ament) at the time to shill for them in any meaningful way
Thank God for Jeff Golub raising the "Artist" model's profile... other than that, Hamer was just never associated with top tier players (which is a damn shame).
Hamer basses were played in a high profile manner by three of the BIGGEST JOKES in bass... Kip Winger, Nikki Sixx and Rick Savage (Def Leppard may be awesome, but the bass playing is not).
Hamer guitars were played and endorsed by the two "clowns of guitar" Rick Neilson and Steve Stevens... they got the reputation for being endorsed by a hairspray addicted cross dresser and a guitar player who could lose a guitar solo contest with Ace Frehley.
If I were Hamer, I would have paid half of their endorsed "players" to NOT play Hamers in public and certainly not run ads featuring their likeness to sell further brand recognition.
An ad for Chester Bennington endorsing Hamers? Are you fugging kidding me?
Hamer was marketed by chimpanzees apparently.
I'd go as far as to say "when Kaman bought Hamer"
That was when the import line started... this was the WORST thing for Hamer to possibly do at that point.
Hamer didn't have enough market share to warrant an import line IMHO.
The company soon suffered from a customer disconnect and confusion between their USA and import line.
This is around the time that they left Arlington Heights for New Hartford.
Hamer also couldn't get it's two highest profile players (Stone Gossard and Jeff Ament) at the time to shill for them in any meaningful way
Thank God for Jeff Golub raising the "Artist" model's profile... other than that, Hamer was just never associated with top tier players (which is a damn shame).
Hamer basses were played in a high profile manner by three of the BIGGEST JOKES in bass... Kip Winger, Nikki Sixx and Rick Savage (Def Leppard may be awesome, but the bass playing is not).
Hamer guitars were played and endorsed by the two "clowns of guitar" Rick Neilson and Steve Stevens... they got the reputation for being endorsed by a hairspray addicted cross dresser and a guitar player who could lose a guitar solo contest with Ace Frehley.
If I were Hamer, I would have paid half of their endorsed "players" to NOT play Hamers in public and certainly not run ads featuring their likeness to sell further brand recognition.
An ad for Chester Bennington endorsing Hamers? Are you fugging kidding me?
Hamer was marketed by chimpanzees apparently.
Dr. Vegetable
New member
Re: Hamer shutting down?
If Fender's profit margins are that low, the worst thing they could do is an IPO. A public company would be under extraordinary pressure to show profit$ for investors, and would be put under the control of a bean-counter CEO. The brand(s) would, of course, survive, but the logo might be the only thing recognizable about their products within five years.
Ain't that a shame about Hamer... But it's true they didn't seem to have much presence in the retail space. I've rarely even seen them except for the occasional import on the (ab)used rack at Daddy's, and I can say that my impression of the brand was not helped by that type of exposure.
If Fender's profit margins are that low, the worst thing they could do is an IPO. A public company would be under extraordinary pressure to show profit$ for investors, and would be put under the control of a bean-counter CEO. The brand(s) would, of course, survive, but the logo might be the only thing recognizable about their products within five years.
Ain't that a shame about Hamer... But it's true they didn't seem to have much presence in the retail space. I've rarely even seen them except for the occasional import on the (ab)used rack at Daddy's, and I can say that my impression of the brand was not helped by that type of exposure.
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: Hamer shutting down?
Gotta be honest here - the Hamer brand had the worst brand management of any guitar company out there.
Some of my reputation here, including sig lines with typos, is based on how I shook my head about how much confusion their Asian operations caused. I got burned badly by the chaos with my own sales and of all brands it is hardest to find out where something labeled "Hamer" has been made. There are some very nice guitars, made in USA and having all the feature people want, such as the Studio models, that are priced extremely low because there's just no confidence in the US Hamer brand, and no instant recognition of a given Hamer as US made.
As mentioned Fender is in trouble either way so there, they can't hold on to it and they don't have time or cash to fix it.
In memory of the good times:
Gotta be honest here - the Hamer brand had the worst brand management of any guitar company out there.
Some of my reputation here, including sig lines with typos, is based on how I shook my head about how much confusion their Asian operations caused. I got burned badly by the chaos with my own sales and of all brands it is hardest to find out where something labeled "Hamer" has been made. There are some very nice guitars, made in USA and having all the feature people want, such as the Studio models, that are priced extremely low because there's just no confidence in the US Hamer brand, and no instant recognition of a given Hamer as US made.
As mentioned Fender is in trouble either way so there, they can't hold on to it and they don't have time or cash to fix it.
In memory of the good times:
