Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

hareek

hareek

New member
My old neighbor told me about them a long time ago when he turned me on to Danny Gatton (sidenote: If you don't know Danny Gatton, get on YouTube NOW!). Anyway Joe Barden pickups were designed for Danny Gatton who was a Tele player. Since then, JB has expanded to make pickups for Strats and Bases, but exclusively for Fender guitars as far as I can tell. Since I'm a strat player, here's a link to the strat pickups:

http://www.joebarden.com/main.php?section=Products&pageID=S-Deluxe


Anyway, these suckers aren't cheap. And don't get me wrong I am completely satisfied with my Seymour Duncans. But I was wondering if anyone had experience with Bardens before. I'd like to get a strat or a tele one day and try them out if they're worth it. From what I hear they're incredible for upgrading your Strat/Tele sound, achieving hum canceling, yet still hanging on to the Fender twang.
 
Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

Aware of Barden pickups. Never had sufficient time/money/inclination to invest in trying them out.

In over thirty years of meddling with guitars and pickups, I am yet to hear any noise-cancelling replacement for a classic single coil pickup that fully captures the tone and dynamic response of the original design.
 
Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

I've only played the Gatton set and a strat set a little, the luthier guy I know pushes them a lot. If you're going for pristine, piano-like sounds, you'll love them. They're not even close to being nasty enough for me.

I am curious about the P90 and double 'bucker things, but I ain't forking over that kind of dough short of another Ironman or Warpig.
 
Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

From what I can tell in my limited research and in the opinions here, it sounds like they're best made for a Tele, but not a strat.
 
Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

This is not much help, but I had a Tele set long ago.

I really liked the bridge PU. Actually I remember it having a similar sound to the stock pickup. The neck pickup I much preferred the stocker (Which is a Twisted Tele). It was not bad, I just remember it being rounder sounding as compared to the Twisted Tele PU. Just a matter of taste.
 
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Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

so they're not going to get very stank? or is my definition of a nasty/stank tele different? I think of like old school funk clean, brother. by nasty do you guys mean more like a jimmy page tele sound? my old singer used to brag about these but i know he wasn't even able to dial a good rock tone with his nice marshall that he had so i ignored his tone rants. im still thinking im going with an antiquity for mine from what ive been reading.
 
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Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

I am a Blackguard Tele enthusiast. My reference sound is Roy Buchanan spankin' that plank through an extremely loud Fender valve amplifier.

The early Page (LZ, LZ II albums) sound is principally that of his distortion pedal(s). It is often difficult to tell whether he is running a Tele or a Les Paul or overdubbing a combination of the two.
 
Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

Barden rail style strat & tele pups are really low output ,In the 4k range
 
Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

4k is not a measure of output. 4k is a measure of DCR, which, when comparing a rail type single sized bucker like that to another more traditional pickup is 100% absolutely meaningless.

DCR IS NOT OUTPUT. Write that 100x on the blackboard please.

DCR is a byproduct of wire gauge and wire length. Thinner wire gauges have higher DCR for the same wire length. That does *NOT* make your pickup have more output. Larger wire has less DCR for the same length. That does *NOT* make your pickup have less output.

Pickup output is determined by number of turns around the bobbin and magnet strength (ignoring for a moment guitar dependent things like size/composition of string, proximity to the magnet of the string, etc). Longer bobbins with the same number of turns (i.e. trembuckers) yield higher DCR but do NOT yield higher output. Stronger magnets with larger wire or less turns can still yield a hot pickup, but DCR may be low, or not high. Witness a DiMarzio X2N, which is super hot due to magnet but not high DCR, or a DiMarzio Humbucker from hell, which is 5k ish DCR but still normal PAF output due to use of larger than normal wire. Or a JB, which has high DCR due to 44 ga wire but is not a very hot pickup, in spite of people saying that it is because they assume the DCR = output, which it does not.

As for rail types, a fast track 1, for instance, is about 5k DCR. Not a low output pickup, rather on the high ish side of single coils. Cruiser neck is only 3k, but it is standard medium single coil output wise.
 
Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

RayBarbeeMusic said:
4k is not a measure of output. 4k is a measure of DCR, which, when comparing a rail type single sized bucker like that to another more traditional pickup is 100% absolutely meaningless.

DCR IS NOT OUTPUT. Write that 100x on the blackboard please.

DCR is a byproduct of wire gauge and wire length. Thinner wire gauges have higher DCR for the same wire length. That does *NOT* make your pickup have more output. Larger wire has less DCR for the same length. That does *NOT* make your pickup have less output.

Pickup output is determined by number of turns around the bobbin and magnet strength (ignoring for a moment guitar dependent things like size/composition of string, proximity to the magnet of the string, etc). Longer bobbins with the same number of turns (i.e. trembuckers) yield higher DCR but do NOT yield higher output. Stronger magnets with larger wire or less turns can still yield a hot pickup, but DCR may be low, or not high. Witness a DiMarzio X2N, which is super hot due to magnet but not high DCR, or a DiMarzio Humbucker from hell, which is 5k ish DCR but still normal PAF output due to use of larger than normal wire. Or a JB, which has high DCR due to 44 ga wire but is not a very hot pickup, in spite of people saying that it is because they assume the DCR = output, which it does not.

As for rail types, a fast track 1, for instance, is about 5k DCR. Not a low output pickup, rather on the high ish side of single coils. Cruiser neck is only 3k, but it is standard medium single coil output wise.
Click to expand...

You know, here's the thing. There isn't an industry standard for determining the output of pickups. Dimarzio uses milivolts, Bill Lawrence uses henries, Duncan uses DCR, etc....Unless you have a good grasp what magnets and what wire does what to the specifics of pickups, the average user is pretty much lost and has to go on something. On top of that, it may advertise what magnets are in a pickup, but very rarely to they advertise what kind of wire or how many turns of it are on a bobbin for obvious reasons.

You brought up some Dimarzios, but they could be exceptions to the rule. The last Bill & Becky Lawrence L500XL I had, had an Alnico 5 magnet, and measured close to 18k DCR. Those pickups are hot pickups. No 2 ways around it. So does that make the 500XL the rule or exception? On top of that, the Lawrence's go by henries for output measurement, but their DC resistance coincide accurately with the output as well.

The thing is, using any of the common measurements is kind of fruitless unless you're comparing pickups with the same wire, magnets, and build. For instance an A2 humbucker using 42ga formvar wire wound to different amounts. Lets say 3000, 4000, 5000 turns of wire per bobbin. Then your DC resistance becomes relative to the output of the pickup.

Until all the manufacturers agree on a standard to determine pickup output, the only common sense thing to do, and what you should be doing anyway, is using your dam ears!
 
Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

That was rather my point.

MV is actually an output measurement, DCR and henries are not.

However, for that to be useful, you have to know that the same strings and pick type and force behind the pick, etc.

It would be useful if they actually posted magnet type, DCR, and wire gauge, that WOULD tell you something, but they don't.

Edit: Measuring output by DCR or henries is like me as an amp tech trying to tell you the output of your amp by the impedance on the plates of the tubes or plate voltage. Without some more information, neither of those things answers the question.
 
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Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

I have played Strats & Super Strats for 40+ years and have owned dozens of them. I prefer Barden S-Deluxes to any Strat pickups of the countless I have tried. They are bigger in every respect but very much all things Strat. What a lot of players don't get is that there is such potential in them that it is essential to use the volume & tone controls to tailor tones. When I first got them I was used to putting all my guitar controls on 10. No need to with the Bardens. I can actively control the gain with my volume knob & cut highs to taste with tone knobs. They have more output & highs than many people need to give the flexibility to tailor one's tone. You can always turn down highs but you can't add them if they are not there. I average my volume & tone knobs on about 7s with the Bardens.
The Bardens sing & sustain like nothing else I have had in a Strat. They are fantastic with darker sounding Strats, sweet & woody with fine quack in 2 & 4. They are not Lo-fi, so if you need that inherent dirt (not knocking dirt!) they are not for you. They are very detailed & show sloppy playing as through a magnifying glass. But oh, are they sweet, responsive & dynamic.
If you try them, remember to use the controls on your guitar & amp. You don't get into a Ferrari & just keep the pedal to the metal or you're outta control from the start. Bardens are kinda like that. They are not for everyone.
(Mr9finger, not trying to steal your name. I have been 9fingers, literally, since a jointer accident 15 years ago. I play with 3 fingers & a half finger with a slide on it on my left hand).
 
Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

RayBarbeeMusic said:
That was rather my point.

MV is actually an output measurement, DCR and henries are not.

However, for that to be useful, you have to know that the same strings and pick type and force behind the pick, etc.

It would be useful if they actually posted magnet type, DCR, and wire gauge, that WOULD tell you something, but they don't.

Edit: Measuring output by DCR or henries is like me as an amp tech trying to tell you the output of your amp by the impedance on the plates of the tubes or plate voltage. Without some more information, neither of those things answers the question.
Click to expand...

I don't think we'll ever get to a point where all the makers agree on a standard. Milivolts is a good start, but like you said, there's many variables that come into play with it. I hate to side with Larry Dimarzio on anything, but it's actually probably the best way to determine output. Most people can decipher or at least get a baseline idea if they put in the description string type, light, medium or heavy strumming and explain that picking picking dynamics is going to affect output. Then again, most guitarist find that part out pretty quickly, as it's true with any pickup.

That's what I like about Seymour Duncan. Buy the pickup from a dealer and if you don't dig it, send it back and try another.
 
Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

RayBarbeeMusic said:
4k is not a measure of output. 4k is a measure of DCR, which, when comparing a rail type single sized bucker like that to another more traditional pickup is 100% absolutely meaningless.

DCR IS NOT OUTPUT. Write that 100x on the blackboard please.

DCR is a byproduct of wire gauge and wire length. Thinner wire gauges have higher DCR for the same wire length. That does *NOT* make your pickup have more output. Larger wire has less DCR for the same length. That does *NOT* make your pickup have less output.

Pickup output is determined by number of turns around the bobbin and magnet strength (ignoring for a moment guitar dependent things like size/composition of string, proximity to the magnet of the string, etc). Longer bobbins with the same number of turns (i.e. trembuckers) yield higher DCR but do NOT yield higher output. Stronger magnets with larger wire or less turns can still yield a hot pickup, but DCR may be low, or not high. Witness a DiMarzio X2N, which is super hot due to magnet but not high DCR, or a DiMarzio Humbucker from hell, which is 5k ish DCR but still normal PAF output due to use of larger than normal wire. Or a JB, which has high DCR due to 44 ga wire but is not a very hot pickup, in spite of people saying that it is because they assume the DCR = output, which it does not.

As for rail types, a fast track 1, for instance, is about 5k DCR. Not a low output pickup, rather on the high ish side of single coils. Cruiser neck is only 3k, but it is standard medium single coil output wise.
Click to expand...

I agree
I'm quite aware of the dcr don't mean anything when it comes to pickups
All I was simply saying they are low output 4+k & I have wound a few of these style pickups my self you have to keep the number of turns down fairly low to get rid of the midrange & these are similar in volume to a strat pickup of around 6k............. Barden don't publish the specs of there pickups & I can see why !.Extremly low dcr to the average player probably would scare off potential customers .Now I don't think they have to worry about that now They must be doing quite well & the price of those things $$$
I was trying to say & not knocking Barden pups ,If you get the bardens & do check the dcr ,they will be quite low in the 4k range but perfectly normal
Enjoy
 
Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

9fingers said:
I have played Strats & Super Strats for 40+ years and have owned dozens of them. I prefer Barden S-Deluxes to any Strat pickups of the countless I have tried. They are bigger in every respect but very much all things Strat. What a lot of players don't get is that there is such potential in them that it is essential to use the volume & tone controls to tailor tones. When I first got them I was used to putting all my guitar controls on 10. No need to with the Bardens. I can actively control the gain with my volume knob & cut highs to taste with tone knobs. They have more output & highs than many people need to give the flexibility to tailor one's tone. You can always turn down highs but you can't add them if they are not there. I average my volume & tone knobs on about 7s with the Bardens.
The Bardens sing & sustain like nothing else I have had in a Strat. They are fantastic with darker sounding Strats, sweet & woody with fine quack in 2 & 4. They are not Lo-fi, so if you need that inherent dirt (not knocking dirt!) they are not for you. They are very detailed & show sloppy playing as through a magnifying glass. But oh, are they sweet, responsive & dynamic.
If you try them, remember to use the controls on your guitar & amp. You don't get into a Ferrari & just keep the pedal to the metal or you're outta control from the start. Bardens are kinda like that. They are not for everyone.
(Mr9finger, not trying to steal your name. I have been 9fingers, literally, since a jointer accident 15 years ago. I play with 3 fingers & a half finger with a slide on it on my left hand).
Click to expand...

This post makes me want to go get a new strat now and put some Bardens in it. I love my current strat with Duncans...very thick tone and a versatile guitar. But I sometimes wish I still had a Strat that was more original in tone. I definitely want to get one for the collection so I can keep my current strat loaded with the Duncans, not change this thing around again. My original thoughts were to get a new strat and just keep it stock, but I know Barden's focus has been on Fender guitars and taking their sound and enhancing it, not changing it completely. So with that in mind and user feedback like this, I think I'm definitely going to have to do this at some point.
 
Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

I've played several guitars with Barden pickups. I think the word Ice pick comes to mind. They IMHO are way to bright for my taste.
 
Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

BARDEN=BRITTLE

After trying them in four different guitars (teles and strats) that's all I can say ... I always end up selling them off.
 
Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

I've liked what a few people have done with Joe Barden pickups, but I have liked what others have done with Bill Lawrence L-45s more. And those are a heck of a lot cheaper, and IIRC what Barden based his design on.
 
Re: Has anyone ever tried Joe Barden pickups? (Sorry SD!)

bardens are great but not for everyone, they are hot and bright. if you know how to use your volume and tone control, they can be very expressive
 
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