Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

a good luthier (not necesary top mojo 100 years tradition luthier) can build a 59 les paul from just raw materials, even making pickups and plastic parts (bobbins included) for way less than a R9 and that would't mean the R9 is a better guitar, just that the profit gibson gets is higher than the one the luthier makes


Load of bollocks. Have you seen what Gil Yaron puts into his 59 replicas? Most sticker for around 10k and for good reason. Your mythical luthier can only do that IF he doesnt pay himself for his time. The time it takes to make a mold and cast something as simple as a pickup ring explains why the good M69 replica rings sell for about 80 bucks a set. Things like the correct binding, inlay material and even just the lacquer are very expensive and hard to come by.

How fast can your mythical luthier build this guitar? After he has spent countless hours building jigs, templates and molds?

There might be guys who are building relatively cheap "Les paul" guitars there are not guys building cheap "59 Les paul replicas"
 
Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

Guitars are like prostitutes... sometimes you're lucky enough to find a good, cheap one, but most of the time a good cheap one just can't match the high dollar ones... Yeah I know... Don't let the door hit me on the way out... :flush: :butkick:

Thats why you go to Amsterdam, there is a standard of quality and a bar set for pricing.
 
Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

Load of bollocks. Have you seen what Gil Yaron puts into his 59 replicas? Most sticker for around 10k and for good reason. Your mythical luthier can only do that IF he doesnt pay himself for his time. The time it takes to make a mold and cast something as simple as a pickup ring explains why the good M69 replica rings sell for about 80 bucks a set. Things like the correct binding, inlay material and even just the lacquer are very expensive and hard to come by.

How fast can your mythical luthier build this guitar? After he has spent countless hours building jigs, templates and molds?

There might be guys who are building relatively cheap "Les paul" guitars there are not guys building cheap "59 Les paul replicas"

Absolutely. Good parts ain't cheap, knowledge ain't cheap and neither is skill or experience.
 
Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

Absolutely. Good parts ain't cheap, knowledge ain't cheap and neither is skill or experience.

For sure, The analogy made always drives me nuts. Oh this guy in his basement can build one cheaper than buying one from a company. Sure because he isnt paying for a building, insurance, legal fees, marketing, taxes, etc etc etc. The dude has zero overhead.

Even beyond that if the guy can make one for 2500 bucks and he sells it for 2500 bucks when someone is willing to pay him 6k for it. Hes an idiot and hurts only himself by doing so. You sell the guitar according to what the market will pay for it. There is no prize at the end of the day for underselling yourself.

Even in my industry. I charge 150 euro an hour, I can tattoo for a lot less, My materials cost is less than 15 euro, my rent and utilities are under 35 euro a day I could feasibly do it for 25 euro an hour and still come out ahead but why? I already have 90 days booked in advance lowering my price would only stand to increase the wait time. No one will come and give me a medal cause I charged under market rate.
 
Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

I got a couple of Squiers for free and the quality is much greater than the Squiers I played when learning. Sure the bridge and tuners I'll probably replace at some point but they're solid little players and sounds pretty nice!
 
Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

I had two old Epiphone guitars, S310 and T310, that played and sounded phenomenal for the price (had around $300 between the two of them.) Wish I still had them. (These aren't my pictures but they looked just like these)

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Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

there are so many costs in making guitars beyond the price of the materials. Even beyond the labour costs.

Given the forum we're on, just replace "Fender USA guitar" with "Seymour Duncan pickup". I don't imagine the materials in a pickup are very expensive, esp when Seymour buys in such volumes. But you're also paying for the design time, all the prototypes that had to be thrown away when the particular model was developed, special tooling for a new line. Even re-programming a CNC costs money in terms of production time lost. Not to mention legal fees protecting copyrights and patents. Then there's hiring and retaining good and talented people, etc. I don't know much about the guitar industry in particular, but I bet the best builders at the Gibson and Fender custom shops are often being poached by other companies, or have the option of setting up their own shops.

Same with great winders. Who wouldn't buy a set of "MJ Brand" PAF's? The high end guys would probably happily fork over $400 for a set.
 
Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

there are so many costs in making guitars beyond the price of the materials. Even beyond the labour costs.

Given the forum we're on, just replace "Fender USA guitar" with "Seymour Duncan pickup". I don't imagine the materials in a pickup are very expensive, esp when Seymour buys in such volumes. But you're also paying for the design time, all the prototypes that had to be thrown away when the particular model was developed, special tooling for a new line. Even re-programming a CNC costs money in terms of production time lost. Not to mention legal fees protecting copyrights and patents. Then there's hiring and retaining good and talented people, etc. I don't know much about the guitar industry in particular, but I bet the best builders at the Gibson and Fender custom shops are often being poached by other companies, or have the option of setting up their own shops.

Same with great winders. Who wouldn't buy a set of "MJ Brand" PAF's? The high end guys would probably happily fork over $400 for a set.

Especially MIA stuff–the costs to do business alone are staggering. To start a business requires a lot more upfront Capital than it use to...lots of licenses and registrations required.
 
Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

Yep, my first ever guitar I got, a Fender squier strat as part of a start pack which cost $300. I've installed new pickups in it, but apart from a new input jack and a switch selector everything else is as it was when I first got it in 1997! It sounds great now, I restring it every 3-4 weeks to keep that bright snap in the strings, and I am still using it today.
 
Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

I paid $150 for this 1987 Charvel Model 1A without the pickups.
Charvel1A_front_zps461e4d5c.jpg


I traded something (no longer remember what) for them a few years earlier and had them sitting in my parts bin, so I have less than $250 in it over all. The SSL-6T isn't going to convince anyone it's a vintage Strat, but it sounds and plays great for my needs.
 
Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

Load of bollocks. Have you seen what Gil Yaron puts into his 59 replicas? Most sticker for around 10k and for good reason. Your mythical luthier can only do that IF he doesnt pay himself for his time. The time it takes to make a mold and cast something as simple as a pickup ring explains why the good M69 replica rings sell for about 80 bucks a set. Things like the correct binding, inlay material and even just the lacquer are very expensive and hard to come by.

How fast can your mythical luthier build this guitar? After he has spent countless hours building jigs, templates and molds?

There might be guys who are building relatively cheap "Les paul" guitars there are not guys building cheap "59 Les paul replicas"

well check this out http://www.guitarristas.info/foros/les-paul-59-standard/233294
is a lot of reading on spanish but you can pretty much skip the reading and just look at the pictures while also taking not of the date from the opening post to the first pic of the guitar finished

yup, he did it for cheap for himself, so his time pay and profit rates are 0 but you get the idea that you don't only pay worktime but also the big brand profit
and on those you don't pay one single guy, you pay for a mass production article being manufactured on cnc machines (not that's a bad thing, but there are less men work hours than with pure handmade)
 
Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

I have a Schecter Blackjack that I picked up for 2 bills that came stock with a JB/59 set and a set neck/string through design, mahogany body I think, but probably weight relieved. Sustain for days. It plays and sounds like a guitar worth 4 times what I paid.
 
Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

Yes I bought an Agile 2000 for $190 shipped to my door and i haven't been disappointed by it yet. Playability is awesome and sounds sweet as well. +1 do demanic ^^^ sounds and looks like I paid 4 times more for it.
 
Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

I don't think the OP asked if anyone has a crappy guitar that plays better and sounds better than a high quality instrument. I've got a Squire Affinity Telecaster, it sounds good and plays good. I do have experience with fine instruments.

Paging Seasick Steve...

Although it was a vintage Strat, SRV's #1 was beat to S#$t, it sounded pretty nice, and I'm assuming played even better.

While we're talking about Les Paul replica's how about Slash's 59' LP replica. I find myself wondering how much it cost him for that 59 (58) replica. I'm also wondering how many nicer 59 replica's that were made by various luthiers just ended up sounding like crap for some unknown reason. It happens.

Name recognition does tend to jack prices up. Look at the Chicago Iron Octavian, $355 for an Octavia, really?
 
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Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

I have a Schecter Blackjack that I picked up for 2 bills that came stock with a JB/59 set and a set neck/string through design, mahogany body I think, but probably weight relieved. Sustain for days. It plays and sounds like a guitar worth 4 times what I paid.

I consider them more mid level guitars. Mine was about $900 for a discontinued model (which I like better than the new ones) even when the Aussie dollar was strong at the time. I can't recommend Schecter enough. They play, look and sound great and often come with locking bridges, tuners and real Duncans right out of the box.
 
Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

My best deal ever was finding my Squier Vintage Modified SSH Tele at a pawn shop. It's a little dinged, so I talked them from the $120 he had listed to $95. A little cleaning and a set up later and it's been my main guitar for almost two years. I prefer it to my 98 MIM Strat and my Gretsch 5120. That's partially because it does the sound I'm after a lot better (gritty country twang), but also just because it is more fun to play. I keep saying I'm going to replace the pickups, but never do because the Duncan Designed pickups that it came with sound great.

Would I rather have a custom built guitar with basically the same specs, but higher quality parts, wood, workmanship? You bet, but gigs around here don't pay enough for me to have that nice of things :18:.
 
Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

Hell yeah! Depending on the brand, companies have just about mastered the art of making affordable guitars for Metal music.
 
Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

My Slick "tele". Cost about 225 but upon lowering the action it did need a fret dress that set me back 100. So about 325 in total. Joe (the guy who did the fret work work) is a Fender man and he was pretty stoked once the frets were correct.

slick50%20-%20Copy_zpsisskgqox.jpg
 
Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

Sometimes great wood shows up in a cheap guitar. Conversely, sometimes dead wood shows up in an expensive one. And wood goes a long way towards determining the character of an instrument.

I got a cheap Eko two years ago. $99 brand new. Pseudo-Stratlike, but a different (and pretty cool) body shape. [Tried to upload a pic but I think there's a problem with the system tonight, I just get a red exclamation point...] Anyway the neck plays exceptionally well and in terms of overall liveliness and musicality the thing's a real gem, more resonant than most of the recent Fenders I've played at any price point. Even the hardware isn't too bad, now that I've replaced the cheesy trem block with a solid one. Sure, the pickups are cheap, but they can be upgraded. There's no substitute for good wood.

You can build a deluxe Strat with all the best parts and still wind up with a dog if there isn't life in the lumber to begin with. Even the super expensive Historic LPs- I sometimes wonder if they aren't more interested in wood that looks good than in wood which sounds good, though it might not be so pretty. That's one major downside to building a guitar like that. You almost have to make good looks your top priority, or people won't be willing to pay thousands and thousands of dollars for it.

I'm lucky to have one of the PRSs made back in the 80s when Paul was checking every board with his rubber mallet before he would buy it to make into guitars. The good pieces rang like a bell, and the guitars made from them just sing, astonishingly musical compared to most. But that's an exceptional case. As a general rule, making guitars in a factory is pretty much a crapshoot; each production run turns out a few really good ones, a few pretty bad ones, and a bunch of okay ones. That was just as true years ago as it is today.

Leo Fender was fond of saying, "They don't make 'em like they used to- and they never did!"

I see three reasons why old guitars tend to be generally better than new ones: First, they were willing to discard the worst ones or sell them off as factory seconds; today these tend to be shipped out anyway. Second, the "just okay" ones often do become better with age than they were originally, especially if they're played & loved. And third, the real lemons got destroyed or parted out over the years, or languish unused baking in somebody's attic. People used to consider a guitar pretty disposable until it was ten or fifteen years old. After many years fewer of the bad apples are visible. But there were
lame ones in the old days too.

Do production standards fluctuate over time? Sure. But a lot of those vintage collectibles (especially the old Fenders) were pretty crudely made, on primitive equipment by what today would be considered semiskilled labor. Even the classic Gibsons were made by factory woodworkers, not by master luthiers. And they're some of the most valuable guitars in the world now.

Anyway, my point was this: being cheaply made doesn't preclude a happy coincidence of wood making a for really good guitar. I don't think all the other $99 Ekos were as good as mine, in fact I'd be very surprised if many of them were. But I'm sure happy with mine. It's easily as good a player as many of my Fenders, some of which cost more than ten times as much. And most of those Fenders got their factory pickups swapped out, too. Now that I think of it, most of my Gibsons don't still have the original pickups either.
 
Re: Have any "cheap" guitars that surprisingly plays/sounds awesome?

Is there a way to objectively test the wood of a guitar before you buy (besides just being really scrupulous while trying it out) it or is it too late once it has finish on it?
 
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