Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

[beaubrummels]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

Why are you insinuating that I said the total load of the guitar's circuit rewinds your pickups for you? Tell me where I said that. I'm talking about the net effect to the listener of using a 1 meg volume pot. Not lab research. In the real world, using a 1 meg volume pot lets through more of the highs from the resonant peak so that the presence of the bass is diminished.

I never insinuated. I quoted your statement about increasing treble and reducing bass. Nowhere did I say "load rewires your pickups for you."

Here are my own words where you can see how I addressed your comment about increasing treble and reducing bass, and nowhere do I say "load rewires your pickups for you."

Sounds like you might have misread the article. All a pot value will do is dampen the resonant peak, not change it, nor change any of the other frequencies the pickup puts out. It will sound more flat in frequency response by reducing just that one peak, and that change might be perceived by some as an increase in something else, all things being relative, but that is not what is happening. The article even goes on to say that the pot value can often become nearly irrelevant given the load pedals and the amp input add to the circuit. But either way, it absolutely does not increase treble and reduce bass. It reduces the resonant peak only.

A 1 meg volume increases highs and decreases bass because highs are taking up a higher proportion of the signal.

This is false. It will dampen / attenuate the resonant peak only.

Regardless of the semantics that you're bringing up, going from a 500k volume to a 1 meg will increase treble and reduce bass every time.

This is false. It will dampen / attenuate the resonant peak only.

He said the exact same thing that I did.

He categorically did not say the same thing you did. You said a 1 Meg pot will increase treble and reduce bass, which by definition suggests both gain and attenuation in the circuit. There is no amplification or gain in a passive guitar circuit to start with, let alone a tuned frequency-dependent gain for the treble.

The author on the other hand, at the top of the article said this, "There is only one thing affected by the pot resistance: the height of the pick-up’s resonance peak." - which is different from everything you've said. It is only attenuation of the resonant peak and no other frequencies, not treble and not bass.

To increase treble suggests gain in the circuit, which a passive guitar circuit does not have. And by simply changing pot values, there is nothing reducing or attenuating the bass frequencies specifically either.

If you allow more of the highs from the resonant peak from the pickups out the jack, it's expressed by the speaker as more highs and less lows.

In the real world, using a 1 meg volume pot lets through more of the highs from the resonant peak so that the presence of the bass is diminished.

Higher pot values do not "allow more highs from the resonant peak." Higher pot values dampen / attenuate / flatten the resonant peak itself so the overall frequency response is flatter. It's not adding more highs or reducing/removing lows. Your choice of words doesn't match what's actually going on. But you're certainly free to believe and express your experiences however makes sense to you.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

So by your reasoning, the bass will be as full and loud on your strat with a 1 meg volume pot as a 5k volume pot?

And by the way, lower pot values dampen the resonant peak, not higher pot values.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

Did you even read your article?

- The volume pot load can drastically change the frequency response of the pick-up.

- In fact the resonance peak causes a certain color to the sound – typically a presence boost that can help to promote clarity, but also can lead to a harsh sound.

He said the exact same thing that I did.

No, you're mistaken.

A lot of this has gone on since I last posted, but what I said initially is indeed correct. Also your initial assertion about the bass was what I most took issue with and have continually referenced. The bass is not attenuated, which is what you are saying and this 'non-attenuation' is proved by the graph and article posted.
The bass stays the same. The treble content is altered in more complicated ways than just 'more'. This is also what I said and what you have also mentioned.......but my version from the get-go is perhaps more accurate for the purposes of pure informational purposes for the OP.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

Again, if your viewpoint were true, you could put a 1 meg volume pot in one strat and hear the same amount of bass in another strat with a 5k volume put. But that isn't the case. The strat with a 1 meg volume pot will sound shrill and brittle and will require more volume from the amp to get bass presence. The strat with a 5k volume pot will be extremely bassy even at low volume on an 8 inch speaker practice amp.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

If you look closely at the graph I linked, and indeed every graph that a search will uncover....you will see that a 10k pot is often listed as tested....5k in other cases. In both of these extreme low K pots there is less bass response from that low level of pot, and the higher you go the bass output actually increases - but with a smaller interval until it seemingly reaches an upper limit which remains almost unchanged as the K reading doubles.
Another thread with the same results:
https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/tone-pot-suggestions.355595/
See post #10 for readings of vol pots as low as 5K for your interest.

I cannot tell what experience you have with your ears or rig. Hearing is subjective.....especially given that adding a 1meg pot for sake of comparison will take at least 10-15mins of effort to install (more if it is a strat pickguard style electrics mounting).
All I can tell you is the electronic thing that goes on with the pickup end of things....which is certainly not less bass output.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

Why would you assume that I'm making judgments without experience. I've spent the last 6 months changing pot values on my quiver of guitars and loading them in various ways. Guess what I did yesterday? I experimented with resistor values across the output jack of my strat with single coils and a 250k volume with no tone. With the 250k volume alone, it wasn't overly trebley, but it wasn't as bassy and full as I wanted it. I tried a 300k resistor, treble went down, bass went up. Tried a 220k resistor, treble went down, bass went up. Tried a 130k resistor, treble went down, bass went up.

It's been the same experience trying volumes and tones on all my guitars of 250, 300, 500k, and 1 meg pots. Although the pickup hasn't changed, yes I know thank you for telling me repeatedly what I already know, the higher the value of pot you use, the more amount of highs make it to the amp and that lowers how bassy the guitar sounds.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

The only assumption is in your above post. If you bother to read the words without making them into what you want to read, you will quite clearly see that I deliberately say that I cannot tell what experience you have. Unless your version of English is a language where you have made up the meanings of words merely to suit your own purpose, then the meaning is the polar opposite to what you insinuate.
Of course this is the second time you have fabricated meanings in this thread alone.....is this to avoid a point, or merely a strawman??

The point is that there the pickup doesn't produce less bass, only more treble.

I however despair of your understanding of this point.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

Is this a joke?

You're the one who's been using a straw man this entire time. By telling me that the pot doesn't change what the pickup produces as if I don't already have a grasp on this pedestrian information.

I'm aware that the pickup doesn't produce less bass, but the drastic increase in treble from a one meg pot results in either a perceived drop in bass from the amp or a real one. Higher value pots also bring out more detail in the mids, which can further the effect of less bass perceived.

Give it a rest with the didactic knowledge and think about common sense for a change.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

Thankyou for finally acknowledging my point from the start........there is not less bass, but more treble. If you'd said that from the start you could have saved yourself looking a bit foolish.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

You hear less bass. You must be more concerned with your lab results so that you can act superior to others. Key word: act.

 

[BluesGuyJ2]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

this is pathetic

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

Agreed

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

You hear less bass. You must be more concerned with your lab results so that you can act superior to others. Key word: act.

Er , you've been crapping on since this post.

That's incorrect. A 1 meg volume increases highs and decreases bass because highs are taking up a higher proportion of the signal. And yes, I agree that 50s wiring is the way to go.

You've now modified it to "Perceived " which is what everyone else were saying all along. Great back pedal.:lame:

Is this a joke?

You're the one who's been using a straw man this entire time. By telling me that the pot doesn't change what the pickup produces as if I don't already have a grasp on this pedestrian information.

I'm aware that the pickup doesn't produce less bass, but the drastic increase in treble from a one meg pot results in either a perceived drop in bass from the amp or a real one. Higher value pots also bring out more detail in the mids, which can further the effect of less bass perceived.

Give it a rest with the didactic knowledge and think about common sense for a change.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

Errr ok. Turn the highs on your amp to 10 and see what happens.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

 

[jeremy]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

way to crap all over someones thread guys. nothing wrong with the discussion as long as yo keep it civil but maybe start a new thread for it

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

How is providing the op with a cheap solution for his exact goal "crapping" on him?

 

[jeremy]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

im talking about the 20+ posts since he last posted that you and alex are going back and forth

 

[AlexR]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

Sorry Jeremy, I just though he'd get to what he finally acknowledged in post #28 WAY earlier.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Have new guitar with Seth Lovers - Question

You have no interest in conduct.