having trouble again: soloing in key

[DankStar]

When soloing over a riff that has: E, F#, G, and A it appears that it's in the key of G to me (same notes as G major scale - but who in the hell solos in the key of G?). The majority of the riff is just palm mutes on E, so I guess I could follow the key of E during most of it? But then I want to be able to do a little George Lynch flat fifth/diminished sounding thing without sounding out of key.

OR, if it's "key of E" let's say, would I shoot for "E phrygian mode" in the key of C major, or "E Dorian mode" from D major, or are those just called E cause it's the starting note? seems like I always come back to the key of C, so I wanna stay away from that if I can.

I have to admit, I really don't understand music theory very well. :banghead:

 

[Corbic]

Re: having trouble again: soloing in key

I'm not very good with theory either, but those notes are the first four notes of both the E Minor Harmonic and E Minor Melodic scale. You can solo using those two scales, or even just the plain old E Minor Pentatonic. Adding that diminished fifth interval to any of those scales is fine too for soloing.

 

[DankStar]

Re: having trouble again: soloing in key

I'm not very good with theory either, but those notes are the first four notes of both the E Minor Harmonic and E Minor Melodic scale. You can solo using those two scales, or even just the plain old E Minor Pentatonic. Adding that diminished fifth interval to any of those scales is fine too for soloing.

cool deal, thanks. funny it was right in the E minor scales and I didn't see it. i just don't think enough when I play you know, I just play. gotta practice.

just found this cool little tip on the net. I guess I can jump between G and E keys:

"This scale [harmonic minor] should be used in a substitution for a minor scale. I.E. If your playing a song in E minor / G Major, use the E Harmonic Minor in place of the E natural minor. For cool affects jump between the two while playing. It will really break up your leads very well. Another suggestion is when playing in the Phrygian mode, hop between the to. These two scales work extremely well together. These modes will definitely turn some heads! If you take the time to master them!"

 

[Corbic]

Re: having trouble again: soloing in key

The reason why you can switch between the two keys E minor/G major, is because they're relative of eachother. This also works with every other key, for instance, the relative minor scale of A major is F# minor. The way to find out what the relative scale is, first find out which key you're in now (Using G major as the example). Now, to find the relative minor, go three half-steps down, which brings you to E. If you're in a minor key and want to find the major key, you can go up three half-steps to get to the major key.

 

[DankStar]

Re: having trouble again: soloing in key

The reason why you can switch between the two keys E minor/G major, is because they're relative of eachother. This also works with every other key, for instance, the relative minor scale of A major is F# minor. The way to find out what the relative scale is, first find out which key you're in now (Using G major as the example). Now, to find the relative minor, go three half-steps down, which brings you to E. If you're in a minor key and want to find the major key, you can go up three half-steps to get to the major key.

thanks, good stuff.

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: having trouble again: soloing in key

If the notes are e, f# ,g, and a, it would be e aeolian. As Corbic said...the same notes as g major.

You could use E minor, minor pentatonic, dorian or blues scale and be right at home. good luck.

 

[DankStar]

Re: having trouble again: soloing in key

If the notes are e, f# ,g, and a, it would be e aeolian. As Corbic said...the same notes as g major.

You could use E minor, minor pentatonic, dorian or blues scale and be right at home. good luck.

awesome. I'll start goofin' round with them all. thanks.

this is pretty cool (mode master scale calculator, covers whole fretboard):

http://www.mearstech.com/ModeMaster_com/default.htm

 

[JimmyQ]

Re: having trouble again: soloing in key

If the notes are e, f# ,g, and a, it would be e aeolian. As Corbic said...the same notes as g major.

I'm curious as to what method you use for working that out that it's E Aeolian?

I'm familiar'ish with modes, in that Aeolian in the 6th mode of the major scale, so if E is the 6th then F# is the 7th and therefore G is the root, which gives us G Major scale.

What I mean is, given a sequence of notes (in this case e, f# ,g, and a), how did you conclude that this was E Aeolian mode? Those notes appear in any number of other scales, how did you arrive at E Aeolian mode of G Major? :?:

Oh, and sorry if this seems like a dumb question!

Best Wishes
Jim

 

[DankStar]

Re: having trouble again: soloing in key

I'm curious as to what method you use for working that out that it's E Aeolian?

I'm familiar'ish with modes, in that Aeolian in the 6th mode of the major scale, so if E is the 6th then F# is the 7th and therefore G is the root, which gives us G Major scale.

What I mean is, given a sequence of notes (in this case e, f# ,g, and a), how did you conclude that this was E Aeolian mode? Those notes appear in any number of other scales, how did you arrive at E Aeolian mode of G Major? :?:

Oh, and sorry if this seems like a dumb question!

Best Wishes
Jim

I believe that if you're working within the 7 modes, yes those notes will appear in all 7 modes for G major (the major "starting" scale being Ionian); and the form that starts on E in this case is aeolian. the ones that start on the other notes are the other 5 modes (which I won't list, mainly cause I don't know 'em all by heart to rattle them all off). so, it just depends on the starting note. they say that the different modes have different flavors and some sound major and some sound minor, but to me, they all sound very similar and it's just a way of visualizing those notes over the whole fretboard.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: having trouble again: soloing in key

they go
Ionian
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Mixolydian
Aolean
Locrian

When you solo over something like the progression you're talking about, you mainly use notes from the Gmajor scale, from which the notes of the Em Aolean are derived, but you can substitute the Em Dorian (from Dmajor) in the same tune, and now it'll have a bit more uplifting feel to it. You could stick a Em Phrygian (from Cmajor) run in there and get a more sinister thing happening...it all depends on the mood you need, but if you're in doubt, the Gmajor will always bring you home in a progression like that.

 

[innerdreamrecords.co]

Re: having trouble again: soloing in key

There's no way to tell the key with out more context I would say. What's wrong with Em?

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: having trouble again: soloing in key

I'm curious as to what method you use for working that out that it's E Aeolian?

I'm familiar'ish with modes, in that Aeolian in the 6th mode of the major scale, so if E is the 6th then F# is the 7th and therefore G is the root, which gives us G Major scale.

What I mean is, given a sequence of notes (in this case e, f# ,g, and a), how did you conclude that this was E Aeolian mode? Those notes appear in any number of other scales, how did you arrive at E Aeolian mode of G Major? :?:

Oh, and sorry if this seems like a dumb question!

Best Wishes
Jim

Jim

DankStar stated that the notes were E, F#, G and A.

In the key of E (which since he listed that note 1st ...I thought that was the root) would lead me to E minor or aeolian. Soloing in the notes stated could also be Dorian or a pentatonic blues thing as well as straight minor.

I'm self taught, so don't take it as gospel.

 

[shogunlegend]

Re: having trouble again: soloing in key

simply put, it's the rhythm that really makes your songs sound modal. if you start on an e minor chord, you're going to have an e minor sound to solo over. generally speaking of course, but the key to playing in modes is in your rhythm guitar.

i've seen a chart that shows the different types of chords and what modes sound right with them. you might want to google the chord/mode reference chart and that should help a lot.

 

[DankStar]

Re: having trouble again: soloing in key

I always wonder how they figured out the keys for stuff like really complex and fast thrash. there's often so many notes that cross over so many keys I think it becomes a chromatic scale free for all nightmare.

 

[innerdreamrecords.co]

Re: having trouble again: soloing in key

simply put, it's the rhythm that really makes your songs sound modal. if you start on an e minor chord, you're going to have an e minor sound to solo over. generally speaking of course, but the key to playing in modes is in your rhythm guitar.

i've seen a chart that shows the different types of chords and what modes sound right with them. you might want to google the chord/mode reference chart and that should help a lot.

More to the point it's the "chord progression" though some songs change keys in a 4 chord turn around. That's why it's really hard to tell what key it's in without context. Just saying E, F#, G, A notes isn't enough info.