HB Neck Pickup Options for a 59/Custom Hybrid

[Demanic]

Re: HB Neck Pickup Options with a 59/Custom Hybrid

Re: HB Neck Pickup Options with a 59/Custom Hybrid

The A 4 really flattens the eq. It sounds thick, but through it's whole tonal range. I have have it mounted in a Triple Shot ring and tend to run it in parallel. To me it sounds quite vintage hot but not boomy.

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[YeRedHouseOverYonder]

Re: HB Neck Pickup Options with a 59/Custom Hybrid

Re: HB Neck Pickup Options with a 59/Custom Hybrid

I put an A4 in my Sentient with a RCA5 Seth/Custom. They pair nicely. The A4 made the Sentient sound more "vintage". Still has plenty of output and treble, but everything is pretty even. Lets the acoustic quality of the guitar shine through. I have this set in my KS 336 which is acoustically bright too.


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[gregory]

Re: HB Neck Pickup Options for a 59/Custom Hybrid

I'd have to try an A4 in a Sentient, but I'm pretty sure I'd prefer it stock.

Since we've started page 2 (thank you all for that, BTW, please keep 'em coming!) I think I need to quote something from my initial post:

I like being able to have single notes sing with the neck under gain without any significant drop in saturation than they are with the bridge.

I think Aceman and beaubrummels get what I'm interested in:

Whole Lotta neck is in the family of a 59 / Pearly, smoother top end, has some push.

I haven't tried it, so I really don't know for sure that I won't like an A4 with an already vintage output pickup. From what I understand about an A4, however, is that it is essentially weaker than an A5 across the spectrum. I like a neck pickup that has strong upper-mids. The last thing I want to do is flatten them out due to a reduction in gain, even if it means more mids in the overall tonal balance.

Regardless of how Seymour Duncan has chosen to position it, there is nothing about the Sentient that suggests it is anything but a vintage output pickup.

 

[gregory]

Re: HB Neck Pickup Options with a 59/Custom Hybrid

Re: HB Neck Pickup Options with a 59/Custom Hybrid

The A 4 really flattens the eq. It sounds thick, but through it's whole tonal range. I have have it mounted in a Triple Shot ring and tend to run it in parallel. To me it sounds quite vintage hot but not boomy.

I've got an A3 in mine and really like that little bit of bite that it adds. I don't like the the deep lose bass, however, hence the 47n. It could be my guitar, although your Ibanez may also be basswood(?).

 

[gregory]

Re: HB Neck Pickup Options for a 59/Custom Hybrid

I started thinking about some DiMarzios (I know: boo, hiss), but the 59/Custom is probably hot enough so that some of their models might work without being too powerful, especially in a 22-fret guitar.

The PAF Pro definitely comes to mind. I was also reading about the original DP103 ("PAF"), but am a little apprehensive about the 36th Anniversary version. There are still others, but I'm afraid they might be a little hot, like the LiquiFire and Gravity Storm.

 

[Despair]

Re: HB Neck Pickup Options for a 59/Custom Hybrid

Regardless of how Seymour Duncan has chosen to position it, there is nothing about the Sentient that suggests it is anything but a vintage output pickup.

Isn't 8K a vintage bridge pickup, though? It's a bit high a resistance for Seymour Duncan's usual vintage neck pickup lineup... [Usual caveats about judging pickups by resistance apply, but there's a shortage of other measurements available.]

 

[gregory]

Re: HB Neck Pickup Options for a 59/Custom Hybrid

Not necessarily...

In order of increasing output range (according to the Seymour Duncan website) for A5 neck pups with similar construction; I think it's pretty safe to say that we're still well within 42AWG territory:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/59-neck : 7.6k <- "Vintage"
http://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/full-shred-neck : 7.5k <- "Vintage"
http://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/sentient-neck-2 : 7.8k <- "High"
http://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/whole-lotta-humbucker-neck : 8.2k <- "Vintage"

 

[Despair]

Re: HB Neck Pickup Options for a 59/Custom Hybrid

Not necessarily...

In order of increasing output range (according to the Seymour Duncan website) for A5 neck pups with similar construction; I think it's pretty safe to say that we're still well within 42AWG territory:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/59-neck : 7.6k <- "Vintage"
http://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/full-shred-neck : 7.5k <- "Vintage"
http://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/sentient-neck-2 : 7.8k <- "High"
http://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/whole-lotta-humbucker-neck : 8.2k <- "Vintage"

Excepting the Benedettos, and the Whole Lotta neck [which has the same resistance as the SH-1b '59 bridge], it's the highest resistance standard humbucker neck A5 pickup that Seymour Duncan makes. I'd misremembered the resistance, though. You were dismissing it with the vintage output lot, was what I was getting at in my poorly phrased [and incorrectly specced] comment.

The A4 Saturday Night Special neck is 7.9K, too.

Not so sure I'd dismiss the Sentient neck as vintage output. And yes, I expect it's probably 42AWG. Wouldn't be surprised if it's different wire gauges on each coil given the targetted market and tone, though. But Seymour Duncan isn't saying so, and I haven't had much luck with google looking for more detailed info on it other than some demos that piqued my interest.

 

[gregory]

Re: HB Neck Pickup Options for a 59/Custom Hybrid

7.8 is a tad higher than the 7.5/7.6 figure we're used to seeing in the vintage output A5 neck group, agreed. If it were comprised of coils using different wire gauges then I'd expect the the output with that DCR to be lower not higher. One coil would have to have a heavier gauge than 42 for there to be a significant enough increase in output to put it in the "high" range (let alone the "medium" range).

No, Sentient being "high" is purely marketing. They're trying to sell it to the metal crowd as the perfect match for the Nazgul or Pegasus. Also notice that the "vintage" 59 bridge is ranked higher in output than both the "medium" Perpetual Burn which is higher than the "high" Pegasus; even the Jazz bridge is supposedly hotter than the Pegasus. Pure lunacy, but I digress.

SNS is A4, so I didn't include it; unless I'm wrong in considering A4 to be weaker than A5(?).

 

[gregory]

Re: HB Neck Pickup Options for a 59/Custom Hybrid

So, of all my initial ideas, including the A4 59N, got some love except for the 59N/JazzB. It would be long screws in the 59 coil which would be closest to the neck and short hexes in the inner JazzB coil. I would initially try a polished A5 and work from there. There would be an option for a partial split, favoring the 59 coil when neck only and favoring the JazzB coil when combined with the inner Custom coil from the bridge.

 

[Despair]

Re: HB Neck Pickup Options for a 59/Custom Hybrid

7.8 is a tad higher than the 7.5/7.6 figure we're used to seeing in the vintage output A5 neck group, agreed. If it were comprised of coils using different wire gauges then I'd expect the the output with that DCR to be lower not higher. One coil would have to have a heavier gauge than 42 for there to be a significant enough increase in output to put it in the "high" range (let alone the "medium" range).

Actually, there are ways it could wind comparable to symmetric coils, and possibly louder, without using thicker wire. Wind one coil much hotter, for the other do same number of turns of a thinner wire. With hot coil towards neck, it's probably louder than a symmetrical neck pickup with studs toward bridge. [There are other possibilities, but the most obvious would currently run afoul of unexpired DiMarzio patents, like using extra hidden metal in between the studs to increase inductance.]

Without more data, I'm reluctant to just dismiss it solely as marketing.

I'd be more interested in a Jazz Bridge/'59 Bridge hybrid, if going all-screw. And I'd probably wind up with hex screws all under the wound strings and standard screws under the high strings. I really like fatter high strings and more bite on wound, but tastes vary.

You seem to have something specific in mind with the JazzB/'59n hybrid, so that might be what you want to try.


Oh, and on the higher resistance coils being lower output... not too surprising if 44AWG underwound to 12-13K wasn't as high output as a more coil-filling 42AWG pickup. Assuming that's what's going on with the Perpetual Burn and Pegasus. Again, lack of hard data...

 

[gregory]

Re: HB Neck Pickup Options for a 59/Custom Hybrid

Not taking the physical geometry into account, but assuming the same number of turns, tension and pattern, the coil with lighter gauge wire will account for greater than 50% of the total resistance. I doubt the difference in geometry or any practical change in the other parameters will tip the scale in the other direction. At 7.8k the 42AWG portion will be less than 3.9k. For a 59N one coil is 3.8k, so I just don't see it happening.

Regarding my comments about the Perpetual Burn and Pegasus, they really have nothing to do with DCR, or how they are made; rather, I find it quite hard to believe they are weaker in output than a 59B, but if we take SD's sorting by output level at face value, why are they in hotter than vintage categories? I think it's marketing, but the reason doesn't matter. The point is that the website gives contradictory results and I don't feel all that inclined to believe the categories represent reality; especially concerning the Sentient being grouped under high output.

Anyway, I'd be reluctant to try a 59B/JazzB hybrid because I'm pretty sure it would be too hot in the neck position compared to the 59/Custom that I'll be putting in the bridge, at least with an A5. Maybe with an A4.