Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

[WaR HeaD]

Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

Well, Mesa stuff is far too expensive around here. A setup like that would be about 4000€ while the VHT setup is only 2500€.

Do you think that the Mesa poweramp is better than the VHT one? If you do, why?

well i can tell you about a couple things like, the control knobs...

you can manage the eq drive, etc etc with digital precision (the only thing i can stand, cause the rest of the preamp is all tube), the eq of this preamp is georgeus, the dinamic voice control makes the tone curve to be more or less noticeable over the eq you have selected...its maybe dificult to use at first time, but once you get it, you can find EVERY tone you are looking for....another thing, the number of presets, more modes to base from than the other preamps...

and finally because it sounds better....but thats a subjetive opinion, so for this one, that is the most important of course, there is no other thing that hear it yourself...examples of the sound of the triaxis are kirk hammet guitar solos (for recording...he´s not using a triaxis for giging) and john petrucci-dream theater records from day 1 to 1997 (falling into infinity)...this preamp has all of the mark series preamp sections so it goes from mark I vintage to mark IV super tight distortion (and using the drive and dinamic voice you can get a natural recto sound)...it works for everyting, but specially for rock-metal...

other than that :laugh2: :laugh2: i can´t say anymore

but yeah if it goes to 4000 there its a lot of money to spend, altought it is well spent...why don´t you buy it on the german musik store/musik produktiv (or whatever you want to buy....)

btw i´m getting it anytime soon for 3000€

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

Yeah right, they are in fact two channels but with the boosts(clean to crunch/low gain lead to high gain lead) the overall voicing of the channel canges and not just the gain level so it's more like four channels than like two channels with gain boosts. Imo you can get about any kind of metal tone out of them(kreator works great if you aks me). My powerball has lots of additional sound shapers extra to the channel's normal eq(seperate knobs for open and focused mids/depth punch knob/presence control), so the versaitillity is clearly given if you want it. Just look the exact features up if you wanna see for yourself.

Yep, I've been looking at the ENGL stuff for quite a long time already. Maybe I've just been too bored with all the hype and popularity, they really do deserve to be heard by me. Thanks!

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

well i can tell you about a couple things like, the control knobs...

you can manage the eq drive, etc etc with digital precision (the only thing i can stand, cause the rest of the preamp is all tube), the eq of this preamp is georgeus, the dinamic voice control makes the tone curve to be more or less noticeable over the eq you have selected...its maybe dificult to use at first time, but once you get it, you can find EVERY tone you are looking for....another thing, the number of presets, more modes to base from than the other preamps...

and finally because it sounds better....but thats a subjetive opinion, so for this one, that is the most important of course, there is no other thing that hear it yourself...examples of the sound of the triaxis are kirk hammet guitar solos (for recording...he´s not using a triaxis for giging) and john petrucci-dream theater records from day 1 to 1997 (falling into infinity)...this preamp has all of the mark series preamp sections so it goes from mark I vintage to mark IV super tight distortion (and using the drive and dinamic voice you can get a natural recto sound)...it works for everyting, but specially for rock-metal...

other than that :laugh2: :laugh2: i can´t say anymore

but yeah if it goes to 4000 there its a lot of money to spend, altought it is well spent...why don´t you buy it on the german musik store/musik produktiv (or whatever you want to buy....)

btw i´m getting it anytime soon for 3000€

It does really sound like a terrific unit, it's just too bad it comes with a terrible price tag! I'm afraid it's a bit too much right now, even with ordering from elsewhere. If I had 3000€ to spend right now, I'd probably just get an Ultralead or an Uberschall and be done with it!

One of my main ideas with building a rack has been to divide the costs to a longer period of time while still being able to buy the best. I'm also quite confident with my PodXT as a preamp, some of the headphone tones I've got really are great. Could it be even better with a high-quality tube poweramp? But, if a Triaxis were to come upon me on the used market in a few years, could I resist it? No, I could not!

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

Thanks for your thoughts! What makes you take the 50/CL over the other VHT options? Over other amps, maybe?

I'm not really that much of a tinkerer, swapping tubes and modding amps etc. Maybe the rack setup would be too much for me, I'll have to think about it.

I think that I'd rather take a standard amp if it was good enough and affordable too. A rack system would be easier to build with time and cheaper to mod as well. Maybe it could adjust to evolving tastes better than a standard head as well. I really don't know.

http://cgi.ebay.com/VHT-Pittbull-50...ryZ10171QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It has some serious overdrive channels that I liken to a modded Marshall. VHT is one of the kings of articulate high gain channels. I'd take this one over the Pitbull 45 and the reason why I wouldn't pick an Ultralead over it is because I can get more power tube saturation out of the 50/CL at more reasonable volumes.

I'd personally spring for the 50/ST because it has a great clean channel (the CL version breaks up too much for my taste). The CL is right for you if you're a medium to high gain player and want some versatile distortion channels. There are only 2 channels on both of these amps, but I've found that too many channels can actually be a bad thing (I used to own a 6 channel Hughes & Kettner Triamp... so I'm speaking from experience here ). It's one of those amps that you plug into, find a great tone easily and just start playing; there really isn't a whole lot of tweaking needed.

 

[PUCKBOY99]

Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

It's one of those amps that you plug into, find a great tone easily and just start playing; there really isn't a whole lot of tweaking needed.

And this is what I like about the 2/50/2 & GP3: I have the ability to tweak tweak tweak away, but plugged straight in & with the eq set how you like them, you get great tone right away on each channel

I think earlier you asked what the difference was between the CL & the rack option.....I think (I'm not sure) the rack option is just a stereo version of the CL or UL.

With that, if you can find a CL or UL for a decent price, I think you'll have a killer straight out of the gate.

Then you can work on the cab & not have to worry about all the other crap that comes along.

 

[Burkwieser]

Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

If you are going with a rack unit. Go with either a Bogner Fish ( cause I like it) or my 1st choice, a Egnater M4 preamp ( try it and you will know what I am talking about) and a VHT 2502 loaded with JJe34Ls. Plain and simply put, there is not much that can touch a VHT, as far as power amps go.

If you are going with a VHT head. I would suggest the UL.

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

http://cgi.ebay.com/VHT-Pittbull-50...ryZ10171QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It has some serious overdrive channels that I liken to a modded Marshall. VHT is one of the kings of articulate high gain channels. I'd take this one over the Pitbull 45 and the reason why I wouldn't pick an Ultralead over it is because I can get more power tube saturation out of the 50/CL at more reasonable volumes.

I'd personally spring for the 50/ST because it has a great clean channel (the CL version breaks up too much for my taste). The CL is right for you if you're a medium to high gain player and want some versatile distortion channels. There are only 2 channels on both of these amps, but I've found that too many channels can actually be a bad thing (I used to own a 6 channel Hughes & Kettner Triamp... so I'm speaking from experience here ). It's one of those amps that you plug into, find a great tone easily and just start playing; there really isn't a whole lot of tweaking needed.

Ok, I'll have to try to try it out! It's a damn shame how they go for cheap out there in the US and the otherwise round here, especially when there really isn't no used market at all.

How comparable to the two distortion channels of the CL is the distortion channel of the ST? I'm not sure if I'd need a clean channel, but I'm not sure if I'll need two distortion channels either!

What is the 50 CL really compared to UL and CLX? Just less power and one less channel? Or are there really some bigger differences?

Thanks for your input!

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

And this is what I like about the 2/50/2 & GP3: I have the ability to tweak tweak tweak away, but plugged straight in & with the eq set how you like them, you get great tone right away on each channel

I think earlier you asked what the difference was between the CL & the rack option.....I think (I'm not sure) the rack option is just a stereo version of the CL or UL.

With that, if you can find a CL or UL for a decent price, I think you'll have a killer straight out of the gate.

Then you can work on the cab & not have to worry about all the other crap that comes along.

Yes, the simple head option is really tempting, although I feel that the poweramp would be a more certain option, if there is such, for me. Making choices is getting harder and harder.

The UL would cost more than the rack here. The rack would cost 600-700€ extra to the 50/CL. The price difference between the UL and the CL is 1100€, a really surprisingly big one, if they're so similar.

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

If you are going with a rack unit. Go with either a Bogner Fish ( cause I like it) or my 1st choice, a Egnater M4 preamp ( try it and you will know what I am talking about) and a VHT 2502 loaded with JJe34Ls. Plain and simply put, there is not much that can touch a VHT, as far as power amps go.

If you are going with a VHT head. I would suggest the UL.

Why do you recommend the 2/50/2 over the 2/90/2? Why the UL? I'll try and check the preamps out, thanks!

 

[Burkwieser]

Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

Why do you recommend the 2/50/2 over the 2/90/2? Why the UL? I'll try and check the preamps out, thanks!

I prefer the 2502 over the 2902 because I liked the ability to run 6L6 in one channel and EL34s in the other. Although, in the end I loaded both with JJE34Ls tubes. Man, I could get some good saturation. I miss it. The 2902 is KT88s. Plus with the 2502 you are able to get some good power tube saturation at lower levels. The 2902 is a bit much, and it always seems like a peamp will add even a little more power to boot.

As for the UL. When I went to look at VHT head amps, the UL sounded the best to my ear, and I am usually a 6L6 or EL34 guy. I would go with either the UL or CLX though.

As far as choosing a head, the only advise I can give is to try them out. What you buy is what you get. At least with a rack unit you can always swap out the preamp. There are good and bad to both though.

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

I prefer the 2502 over the 2902 because I liked the ability to run 6L6 in one channel and EL34s in the other. Although, in the end I loaded both with JJE34Ls tubes. Man, I could get some good saturation. I miss it. The 2902 is KT88s. Plus with the 2502 you are able to get some good power tube saturation at lower levels. The 2902 is a bit much, and it always seems like a peamp will add even a little more power to boot.

As for the UL. When I went to look at VHT head amps, the UL sounded the best to my ear, and I am usually a 6L6 or EL34 guy. I would go with either the UL or CLX though.

As far as choosing a head, the only advise I can give is to try them out. What you buy is what you get. At least with a rack unit you can always swap out the preamp. There are good and bad to both though.

Well yes, I've heard that the 2/90/2 is really hard to get to break up. I guess it boils down to if I'm a preamp distortion kind of guy. I've heard some people say that the KT88 makes more consistent a preamp, is that true? I'd like it to sound good at all volumes, naturally, even if that's a bit difficult with tube amps. I hope I'll get to fire the poweramps up next to each other, I'm just a bit afraid their kind of made to order around here, not so many in stock.

I don't know about the heads anymore, I'm leaning a bit more towards the rack at the moment, although some experienced opinions could sway my course were that to come... I'll have to hear and think about it some more.

Thanks for the input!

 

[WaR HeaD]

Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

It does really sound like a terrific unit, it's just too bad it comes with a terrible price tag! I'm afraid it's a bit too much right now, even with ordering from elsewhere. If I had 3000€ to spend right now, I'd probably just get an Ultralead or an Uberschall and be done with it!

One of my main ideas with building a rack has been to divide the costs to a longer period of time while still being able to buy the best. I'm also quite confident with my PodXT as a preamp, some of the headphone tones I've got really are great. Could it be even better with a high-quality tube poweramp? But, if a Triaxis were to come upon me on the used market in a few years, could I resist it? No, I could not!

you can find the whole package (triaxis + 2:50 or a simul class 2:90) for 1200-1500 € on the used market

and yeah go for a pro power amp...it doesn´t have to be the mesa nor the vht....it has to be an all tube pa...if you want to have the best i think the 2:90 is the best to suit along with the triaxis, but imo a stereo 90 watts pa is too much power to use...think of a 180w long head....on the other hand a 2:50 pa is much more useful...

btw....which cab did you say you were going to work with?

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

you can find the whole package (triaxis + 2:50 or a simul class 2:90) for 1200-1500 € on the used market

and yeah go for a pro power amp...it doesn´t have to be the mesa nor the vht....it has to be an all tube pa...if you want to have the best i think the 2:90 is the best to suit along with the triaxis, but imo a stereo 90 watts pa is too much power to use...think of a 180w long head....on the other hand a 2:50 pa is much more useful...

btw....which cab did you say you were going to work with?

I'll have another look on the local used market, but I'm afraid that the prices here aren't as low.

I'm sure that a 50w poweramp has all the power I need, with the VHTs I've been thinking I've been considering the tonal difference between the different powertube's they use in their respective poweramps, meaning EL34 vs. KT88. The price difference isn't really that big. I've also been thinking if using the 50w poveramp allowed me to use more possible speakers in my cabs, 2 * 25w greenbacks for example. For my cab I plan to use Framus 2*12 cabs, probably in stereo too.

 

[Burkwieser]

Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

I'll have another look on the local used market, but I'm afraid that the prices here aren't as low.

I'm sure that a 50w poweramp has all the power I need, with the VHTs I've been thinking I've been considering the tonal difference between the different powertube's they use in their respective poweramps, meaning EL34 vs. KT88. The price difference isn't really that big. I've also been thinking if using the 50w poveramp allowed me to use more possible speakers in my cabs, 2 * 25w greenbacks for example. For my cab I plan to use Framus 2*12 cabs, probably in stereo too.

Not sure, but it sounds like you might be a little confused. The VHT 2502 is a two channel amp at 50w per channel. Essentially a 100w power amp. That was why WaR HeaD was suggesting the 2902 was a bit too much power. A 180w power amp. If you go with a power amp, go with the 2502 with JJe34Ls. You won't be disappointed. As far as a preamp goes. The triaxis is a good preamp, but you really need to check out the Egnater M4 or M8. the sound is just amazing, and you can have modules modded to your liking at a low cost. It is the only preamp I would really consider, other than my current Mesa setup.

http://amazingtone.com/generic.html?pid=0

http://www.egnater.com/

http://www.randallamplifiers.com/products/amplifiers/mts/mtsrack.asp

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

Not sure, but it sounds like you might be a little confused. The VHT 2502 is a two channel amp at 50w per channel. Essentially a 100w power amp. That was why WaR HeaD was suggesting the 2902 was a bit too much power. A 180w power amp. If you go with a power amp, go with the 2502 with JJe34Ls. You won't be disappointed. As far as a preamp goes. The triaxis is a good preamp, but you really need to check out the Egnater M4 or M8. the sound is just amazing, and you can have modules modded to your liking at a low cost. It is the only preamp I would really consider, other than my current Mesa setup.

http://amazingtone.com/generic.html?pid=0

http://www.egnater.com/

http://www.randallamplifiers.com/products/amplifiers/mts/mtsrack.asp

I am confused! Isn't the 2/50/2 just two different poweramps, where each of them breaks as 50watters instead of one 100watter? And that I either use two separate speaker sets for each channel, not just one? I'm planning to use two 2*12 cabs, for real stereo or just a stereo 4*12 cab.

I'm certain that 50w is enough power for me. The only reason I'm considering the 2/90/2 is that some reliable people say that it has a different and better tone than the 2/50/2. They call it more consistent, balanced and bigger. The price difference is small too, so I'm quite uncertain, or confused right now.

I'll check the Egnater out, I don't know if there's anybody importing them here now, they look quite expensive too. But, quality costs, right?

 

[WaR HeaD]

Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

yeah it could be right that they are bigger sounding...when pushed (the power amp section)

but its "easier" to crank the power amp section of a 2:50 than doing the same with the 2:90 one... you´ll count with your fingers the number of times you´ve cranked a 180w pa

there is also economical facts...every time you have to retube the preamp you have to pay 600-800€... too much tubes to pay...fu....ng money!!

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

yeah it could be right that they are bigger sounding...when pushed (the power amp section)

but its "easier" to crank the power amp section of a 2:50 than doing the same with the 2:90 one... you´ll count with your fingers the number of times you´ve cranked a 180w pa

there is also economical facts...every time you have to retube the preamp you have to pay 600-800€... too much tubes to pay...fu....ng money!!

Yes, even though I have the opportunity to play about as loud as I want, it's quite rare for me to run anything with full volume, haven't done it many times. Some say that along to sounding bigger when cranked, the KT88s sound better at lower volumes when you don't have the opportunity to drive the poweramp to clip. Is that true? The financial factor is a thing to remember too, the 2/90/2 costs 2x to retube than the 2/50/2. Well, what wouldn't you do for tone!?