heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

[Hot _Grits]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

Some pedals and amps work well together, and some don't. It's not a very exact science.

As a rule, I've got great tones from pedal/amp combos, but generally I use lower gain amps and push the power section. Often the best sound I find is the power section working a bit and a well-matched pedal pushing it further.

 

[MetalMike_II]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

Why not the sound of both together ?

I personally find nothing better than the tone of a Plexi, or maybe even a JTM45 or 800 thats cranked and then hit with an OD to really push it over the edge

I can only direct you to my original post where I typed this concurrence: "the question assumes we're using amps with "good" distortion and plenty of it available. also, please know that if I was using a JMP/800/Fender, of course I'd use a pedal -- I am not talking about that kind of sitchyation. I mean, if you have an amp with a lot of good distortion on hand."

With that reiterated, I would like to now supplement and counter-juxtapose my original topic thusly:

The other day, some kid in Guitar Center plugged a Boss MetalCore into a big ordinary Fender combo, and in surprised reaction, my fart was like gunshots. Sure seems like an economical way to go from spanky clean to full-on death metal.

 

[MetalMike_II]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

EVH did use an SD1 quite a lot.

well, how drunk was he when he told you that?

He publicly waffles quite a bit on his gear. From what I've read only, he's always been quoted, adamantly, as an anti-pedal, amp-distortion only guy.

huh...never noticed that before. Adam Ant-ly. hee

 

[Sludgenutz]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

I coud never get into any pedal dirtier than a Japanese SD-1. Other than that, my suggestion is choose a Mesa, because they are like having a tube od/dist unit installed by the factory.

This does not mean I don't like fuzz.

 

[Pierre]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

thanks, now we're getting somewhere. This is what a lot of others seem to be saying.

Pierre, you don't think the pedal, uh, compromises? yer guitar tone or amp tone? Making it sound like the pedal more than anything? This is why I have not really done it too much. It sounded less pure to me, less like the guitar, less like the delicious preamp I spent so much money on, etc. More like the pedal itself, but magnified.


which pedal, which amp?

I keep the gain low on OD pedals. So basically I get a hair of clipping and a volume boost. So I hit the preamp that very little bit harder to bring out 'more'. And yes the pedal does impose a bit of its voicing but it's usually something I can get around to. In the case of the Bad Monkey I can live with. With the SD1 I have to mod it though. Ideally the pedal I'd use for this has a totally flat EQ.

 

[tc]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

I started using my DS-2 the same way Lew has his DS-1 to give it a try. I'm liking it so far.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

So I guess it's me, this guy: Mattias Eklundh, Edward Van Halen, Paul Gilbert, Firebird the Fifth, suislidE03, and D BBQ sometimes...

...against everybody else in the world.

Take Paul Gilbert off your list. In the latest Guitar Player, he's quoted as saying, "I normally go for about a Malcom Young level of distortion, then boost it from there with pedals."

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

For tight metal rhythm and high-gain leads, I honestly haven't heard an amp besides an ENGL that doesn't sound better with an OD808 or similar infront.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

For tight metal rhythm and high-gain leads, I honestly haven't heard an amp besides an ENGL that doesn't sound better with an OD808 or similar infront.

How would you go about setting up a Rectifer with a TS as far as gain and volume are concerned on the amp and pedal?

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

I generally keep the TS at one of two settings, depending on the pickup or feel I want.

Gain - 9:00
Tone - 10:30
Level - 12:00

This drives the amp but keeps it sounding pretty natural, boost wise. Tightens up the low end, smooths out the top end, nice and creamy in the midrange, etc.

or

Gain - off
Tone - 10:30
Level - full

This drives the amp harder, creating a more aggressive, 'grindy', in-your-face kind of tone.


With a Rectifier, on the modern mode, I dial the gain down to about 12:30 or so, with a tubescreamer and a hot pickup.

 

[ModestCargo]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

I actually prefer a mostly clean amp with a TS in front, level at 10 and gain at 0. Then after that a little sweet subtle slapback delay.

 

[MetalMike_II]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

Take Paul Gilbert off your list. In the latest Guitar Player, he's quoted as saying, "I normally go for about a Malcom Young level of distortion, then boost it from there with pedals."

I've got a recent one where he says, "These days I usually plug straight in, no pedals."

I'll have him get back to me.

 

[daemon barbeque]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

When i play the Engl Fireball ,i don't need a pedal to tighten up the things..But on Orange Rockverb ,any kind of recto ,JCM 800/900...i have to use it for fast riffage...But i w am going to change my string gauges ,and try it without a pedal...The 7th string on Bb or A really needs a real tight amp...and tight playing hands...

 

[wahwah]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

My main gig requires a very broad range of various gain stages, coz the guy I work for had hits here with his band in the 70's, then a solo career in the late 80's and then a recent album release a couple of years ago. So in the one gig, I have to reproduce some 70's grind, those horrid 80's clean chorus sounds (made bearable by a Dimension C), and some more modern overdriven tones, as well as a nice fat saturated lead tone for solos. I also need a rig that can comfortably be flown around the country without incurring massive excess baggage expenses for the artist. Under those circumstances, there aren't any amps that I've tried that can meet the requirements, so it's a Fender Super Champ and a selection of very high quality pedals (Ulbrick 12AXE, MI Audio Blue Boy & Crunch Box).

Recording is a different story, with the luxury of setting up one sound for each part, and I will often punish the Super Champ or one of my other amps into whatever gain structure is required for the part. But for professional gigging purposes, the pedals provide a better result than making compromises with bulky multi-channel amps that only get 80% of the way there. Once the signal hits a 57 and a good PA, the desired result is achieved, with a very accurate "sub-mix" of levels at the various gain stages at my feet, leaving the front of house engineer free to just run up my channel and concentrate on the rest of the mix.



Cheers................................wahwah

 

[Dr.Mavashi]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

Wah,
Do you mic live with a 57 too?

 

[wahwah]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

Wah,
Do you mic live with a 57 too?

I generally leave it to the FOH guy coz it's his mix, but I see more 57's than anything else. The occasional e609 or 906. For local gigs I carry around a Beta 57, just in case.



Cheers.................................wahwah

 

[metlking]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

I don't use any type of boost or overdrive/distortion pedal infront of my amps....I never have. I use hot pickups like the Duncan Distortion to drive the amp instead. Not that I haven't eyed a drive pedal or two from time to time but haven't really seen the need in my situation.........

 

[Rich_T]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

I push mine with a Rat or a Fulldrive II. My JMP doesn't have all that much gain by today's standards, so I give it a good kicking with those.

 

[Gr8Scott]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

I think it depends on the amp and the pedal in question. I do love using a tube screamer type OD pedal in front of an amp to give it a kick. I also like using a pedal for all the distortion sounds at times also, but that also happens to be through a tube distortion pedal. It all depends on the application and what kind of sound I'm looking for. I do tend to use pedals a lot though unless I'm playing through a modeler.

 

[MetalMike_II]

Re: heating up the front vs. amp distortion only

the question assumes we're using amps with "good" distortion and plenty of it available. also, please know that if I was using a JMP/800/Fender, of course I'd use a pedal -- I am not talking about that kind of sitchyation. I mean, if you have an amp with a lot of good distortion on hand.

Don't taze me bro!
AAAAUUUGGGHHH!

what if yer a metalhead and your amps already have massive distortion. some people still stick a pedal in front. why then? if you already have a tight sound, tight lows.

I can understand if yer tuning way low, or using really hot pickups that need focusing, but otherhow, I don't see a need, speaking for myself. Especially since my main amp is a 3-channel, with a channel dedicated for the lead boost thing.

me, if I need to heat/tighten up or boost my moderate-output pickup signal going into the front, I reckon the drive and level knobs on my Moog Phaser will do.

with my last several amps, I just go straight in, often without noise suppression. Just guitar volume knob for that.

I think I got my answers; thanks all.