Heavy Tone at a Reasonable Volume?

Pink Unicorn Horsey

Pink Unicorn Horsey

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I have two 50-watt Mesa heads, a Single Rec and a DC-5. They both have great tone, but they're loud as hell. I'm considering selling both of these heads, but only if I can parlay that cash into another high-gain amp that can be played at more reasonable volume levels. I figure, after selling those two heads, I'd have about $1,500 to spend. I could get another head to go into my 2x12 cab, or I could get a combo of some sort. I'd like something that can achieve a range of drive, from AC/DC to Radiohead to Tool.

Does such a beast exist? Ideas, please!

- Keith
 
Re: Heavy Tone at a Reasonable Volume?

Attenuators like the Hotplate and so forth, are still usefull tools with master volume amps. This allows you to set the MV were it needs to be, and still bring down the volume. This allowance of a higher MV setting rather just turning the MV down to 1 1/2 or 2, usually results in a "heavier" tone, due to the output transformer being more worked, rather than just barely ticking over. Moreover, you can use a lesser amount of attenuation with a master volume amp (compared to a NMV amp), with less of a tonal comprmize from the attenuation. A attenuator will cost less than a new amp.
 
Re: Heavy Tone at a Reasonable Volume?

I'd go with an attenuator ;).


Or, find an amp that sounds good at low volumes. Peavey and Randall comes to mind with this - I know the 5150 sounds great at low volumes, as do the JSX and XXX.
 
Re: Heavy Tone at a Reasonable Volume?

The Mesa Stiletto Ace (EL34's) covers alot of territory and has a fantastic master volume. The MV has a very smooth taper with no sudden jumps in volume.
 
Re: Heavy Tone at a Reasonable Volume?

This is an issue for a lot of guys. I think one of the reasons the Marshall 18 watter is so popular is that it does give a sense of high gain without having your ears bleed. A Vox AC15 can do that, but in a voxy way. Matchless Lightning perhaps. Again, those last two don't give up the Marshall tone though.

The problem is power tubes. Kinda have to limit yourself with low otuput tubes, EL84 and 6V6. I've been toying with making a 6V6 version of my Edana. It'll still be loud though.

Hell, the Caitlin is pretty loud for a dual 6V6 amp. Is that one too loud for you?
 
Re: Heavy Tone at a Reasonable Volume?

The man owns an AD100VT head and is wondering how to geat heavy tone at a reasonable volume. :laughing: :9:

Bro, you've got it already. US High Gain model, adjust EQ to taste. Or, UK 80's plus a tubescreamer or super overdrive type pedal out front. I'm actually pretty disappointed with the Dual Recto model (US Modern). Then again, I'm not a fan or get along with a real Dual Recto.
 
Re: Heavy Tone at a Reasonable Volume?

50 watt amps are just loud. An attenuator is a great idea if you want to push the power toobs but at a lower volume. Most tube amps of any power are loud when you want the tubes to fuzz up. Alternates to an attenuator would be either a solid state or a hybrid amp.
 
Re: Heavy Tone at a Reasonable Volume?

I find the same thing with my DC-5, in particular the lead channel sounds pretty mushy unless you crank the Master. Too big a difference in gain between the rhythm and lead channels for my liking also. I use a Fulldrive clone with the rhythm channel to boost it for crunch rhythm and lead. I have tried using a Powerbreak with the Boogie but not yet at rehersal levels, didn't sound too good at home though. Does the single rectifier give a good bluesy crunch in the pushed mode or does it sound like the DC-5 with the boost engaged in the rhythm channel ?. I find that way too harsh. I can't find that middle ground edge of breakup that my 30 year old Marshall Superlead head does so well !.
 
Re: Heavy Tone at a Reasonable Volume?

Along with the suggestions above, I'd look into the B52 At-100. The 100watt heads are $800 at guitar center. They have loads of gain even at low volumes. Of course this is all preamp gain. Some say reliability is a big issue with this amp, but I've never owned one.
Laney is coming out with low-watt heads and combos that were announced at NAMM, I think they're called the Lionhearts. Krank has the Mini-Stack coming out, Peavey has a low-watt JSX.
You may also want to look into the Crate V-Series. Great amps for low bucks. The Series 1, which is out now, is USA made so give them a look. The new model, Series 2 which isn't out yet, is made in the 'Nam.
 
Re: Heavy Tone at a Reasonable Volume?

I could go the attenuator route, though I'd prefer not to. I use an attenuator with my Vox AC30 when I'm running it for gain a la Tony Iommi. For a high-gain amp in that modern Marshall/Mesa league, I'd like something I can get from the amp alone.

I'm looking for something in the 10-to-20-watt range. I totally dig the sounds I get out of the two Mesas, but I can never get the master volume beyond 2 or 3 (depending on the mode) before I start shaking walls. That tells me I'm not using the amp to its full extent, and I should be looking at something with a lot less wattage to get those power tube (and speakers) really working.

Scott, the Caitlin's volume is great. I can play it in my house at reasonable levels, and I can get it louder if need be.

Like I said, I'm after something that can do gain from old school AC/DC and VH to modern metal in the gain range of, say, Tool. I'm not looking for pedals to do the job; I'd like as much of the tone as possible to come right from the amp itself. I don't mind putting a boost or OD in front of it for that occasional push over the edge, but not for the base tone.

Erik, the Valvetronix head is awesome, but like you said, the Recto model just doesn't hold up to the real thing.

The thread DankStar posted has some interesting suggestions. Does anyone here have any hands-on experience with the Voodoo Amps Witchdoctor? The clips on the website sound fantastic, but you never know from those clips how true they are. The price is $1,800, so I imagine this thing really brings on some heavy stuff.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Comments? Cliches? Commentary?

- Keith
 
Re: Heavy Tone at a Reasonable Volume?

KGMESSIER said:
Like I said, I'm after something that can do gain from old school AC/DC and VH to modern metal in the gain range of, say, Tool. I'm not looking for pedals to do the job; I'd like as much of the tone as possible to come right from the amp itself. I don't mind putting a boost or OD in front of it for that occasional push over the edge, but not for the base tone.
Click to expand...



You really should give a 5150 a shot... Don't worry about not using the amp to its full extent, as long as it sounds good, why does it matter?
 
Re: Heavy Tone at a Reasonable Volume?

Throw your tubescreamer in front of the Dual Recto model and JCM800 model and see what that does. I use the Soldano model for all my high gain stuff. Plenty enough gain for me.
 
Re: Heavy Tone at a Reasonable Volume?

Mephis said:
You really should give a 5150 a shot... Don't worry about not using the amp to its full extent, as long as it sounds good, why does it matter?
Click to expand...

True, true. However, if I'm not taking full advantage of an amp (read: if I could get an even better tone if I had those knobs turned up), my thinking is that I can get better tone with something on the smaller side.

That said, I won't discount the 5150 as an option. I'll have to check it out. Does anyone know if Guitar Center carries 5150s?

- Keith
 
Re: Heavy Tone at a Reasonable Volume?

ErikH said:
Throw your tubescreamer in front of the Dual Recto model and JCM800 model and see what that does. I use the Soldano model for all my high gain stuff. Plenty enough gain for me.
Click to expand...

I have rehearsal this evening, but I'll set a reminder to try just what you suggested when I get home later tonight. I haven't experimented nearly enough with putting pedals in front of the Valvetronix. Shame on me.

- Keith
 
Re: Heavy Tone at a Reasonable Volume?

You can't find a 5150 new anymore so keep hunting there. You can find a 6505 though (same amp, different badging). GC does carry Peavey now so you may be in luck but I wouldn't get one new. Look for a 5150 (not the 5150 II) used. They're great deals. That is, if that is what you end up wanting.

I'm surprised you haven't tried pedals in front of the Valvetronix yet. I've used my MXR Wylde Overdrive and Super Overdrive out front with great results. My DIY pedals even work well with it. That's another thing these amps have over other modellers, they take pedals well.
 
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