Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

[brashboy]

Well, I think they are Japanese. They're in a 1977 Electra 2258 Super Magnum (set neck, Wave headstock) -- this is the high-end model that is all maple with deep carving and tree of life inlays on the neck. Judging from oxidation/rust, they seem the right age and could be original. According to spec, the pups should be Magnaflux or Super Magnaflux, but on those sets, the neck pup was covered and the bridge was uncovered zebra with odd, square-looking slugs.

The pups have NO markings except an F on the bridge pup and an R on the neck. There would seem to be a high probability they are Maxons, but they sound great. I've spent hours scouring the web but know little more than when I started. Electras of this vintage should have been made by Fujigen Gakki.

Any ideas?

 

[Adieu]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

What do they read? 7.92k?

 

[brashboy]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

About that - pretty close. Definitely vintage, not hot. I can't find my notes on these pups and might have to measure again.

 

[Adieu]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

About that - pretty close. Definitely vintage, not hot. I can't find my notes on these pups and might have to measure again.

Are they? Vintage output?

Cause first guess would've been one of the hotrodded Maxon creations with PAF winds and a big-azz ceramic or A8 mag.... the catalogue's half-covered zebra with oddball polepieces is most likely a debadged Ibanez (Maxon) Super 70, after all

Then again, around '77 everything started changing

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

Not a clue on the pickups, but the guitar looks cool.

 

[Discharged]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

Sorry, those are simply OEM p'ups, and the fact that have those hi-capacitance leads coming out and brass baseplates, all appointments suggest cheapest line of hardware, and I'm almost sure the same hi-capacitance leads are also used to make the harness, am I right?

/Peter

 

[brashboy]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

Sorry, those are simply OEM p'ups, and the fact that have those hi-capacitance leads coming out and brass baseplates, all appointments suggest cheapest line of hardware, and I'm almost sure the same hi-capacitance leads are also used to make the harness, am I right?

/Peter

View attachment 95417View attachment 95418View attachment 95419

 

[brashboy]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

What do they read? 7.92k?

Whoa, glad I decided to check...

N - 15.53
B - 14.92

That's pretty hot for the time, it seems to me.

 

[Adieu]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

Sorry, those are simply OEM p'ups, and the fact that have those hi-capacitance leads coming out and brass baseplates, all appointments suggest cheapest line of hardware, and I'm almost sure the same hi-capacitance leads are also used to make the harness, am I right?

/Peter

*facepalm* more ignorance... Electras were never cheap. It was always a technology and design showcase brand.

And this is the flashy, inlaid, carved model.

The plain, uncarved, un-inlaid version listed for $450.00....:in 1981 (correction that's an'81 price list, can't find a 70's one). That's ~$1400 today.

And this one cost noticeably MORE.


PS norlin's top of the line Gibson Les Paul Custom sold for ~$600 in '77 [https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/how-much-did-a-brand-new-gibson-les-paul-cost-in-1976.305969/[/url] http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x449/bassguitar714/image.jpg1_10.jpg

By '81, to compare catalog to catalog, MSRP shot up though, and it was the standards listing for $599...but in the 80's Gibson was a mess and didn't actually sell at sticker pricing.

 

[Adieu]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

SUMMARY: HIGH-END ELECTRAS COST A SH!TTON OF MONEY NEW. The priciest ones (MPCs) more than contemporary Gibsons.

And this would be the priciest non-MPC model.

 

[brashboy]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

*facepalm* more ignorance... Electras were never cheap. It was always a technology and design showcase brand.

And this is the flashy, inlaid, carved model.

The plain, uncarved, un-inlaid version listed for $450.00....:in 1977. That's ~$1800 today.

And this one cost noticeably MORE.

PS norlin's top of the line Gibson Les Paul Custom sold for ~$600 in the same timeframe

Yeah, Electras were very nice, at least the Fujigen ones. The Super Magnum was, I believe, their highest-end guitar ever; if not, I cannot recall a more expensive one. The Electra brand changed to Electra Westone about 1980 or so and later, to just Westone. These were all pretty good guitars. The Super Magnum was so expensive to make that it didn't even make it to the first name change.

I wanted a Super Magnum bad in 1977, but was in law school then, working in the law library for something like 1.70/hr., and buying a SM for 600 or so was not in the cards. Got one now, though.

 

[Discharged]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

So you're also thinking they are original?

No. I've said "OEM" meaning that they're not branded. And no, those are NOT japanese and are not the ones that came with that guitar originally. The ones depicted are loosely based on the DiMarzio specs of the Super Distortion, (in your case most probably are 2x 7500 turns of SPN per bobbin and certainly ceramic magnets) and the originals were most probably taken out to be sold separately… but I digress.

Here are some pics of the control cavity

Yeah, and judging from the sloppy workmanship, not only nothing in the cavity is original to that guitar (not even the knobs), it also confirms my suspects that the wiring job was done by some hobbist with the materials that he had lying around at the time the job was done.

Time to re-do the whole enchilada, this time with good components, like CTS 500K TVT pots for both Tone and Volume, shielded vintage braided wire for the harness, '50s style wiring and Switchcraft toggle and output jack (if those are not). You can keep the Sprague caps, though.

Those late 70s, early '80s japanese guitars are excellent instruments, and being a fan of those (I've repaired, modded and setup quite a few exemplars of contracted brands out of the Matsumoku, Terada and Fujigen factories in my over fifteen years as a moonlighting guitar tech in my neck of Woods), believe me when I tell you that evey penny invested is Worth many times over in form of tone. And that guitar certainly deserves good, PAF-like p'ups to live up to its potential. Being an all-maple construction, it probably has a higher-than-usual tonefootprint, so if I was you, to save some dough, I'd look for a second-hand, covered '59 set and change the stock magnets with an Alnico III for the neck p'up and an Alnico II for the bridge one.

You can thank me later.

Hope this helps,

/Peter

 

[Discharged]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

*facepalm* more ignorance

LOL! You look oh so hard to find any excuse to somehow make me look bad, with the usual backfiring and making you look even more foolish than you already do.

I was talking about the PICKUPS, NOT the guitar. Seems that you were so taken trying to attack me that you of course overlooked that "insignificant" detail, making the whole thing, altough entertaining and informative to a point, just a psychotic rant of a triggered madman.

Lack of reading/comprehension skills and Dunning Kruger effect much? Looking for a safe space to cry yourself to sleep…?

/Peter

 

[brashboy]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

No. I've said "OEM" meaning that they're not branded. And no, those are NOT japanese and are not the ones that came with that guitar originally. The ones depicted are loosely based on the DiMarzio specs of the Super Distortion, (in your case most probably are 2x 7500 turns of SPN per bobbin and certainly ceramic magnets) and the originals were most probably taken out to be sold separately… but I digress.

/Peter

Heck, I will thank you now... So, wrong pots and pups. Those are fairly old pups and mighty hot, wish I could identify them. The JS pots are super-cheap Asian.

The guitar really sounds good, though, to my ear.

 

[brashboy]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

Finding MMK pickups is not difficult, but finding Magnaflux pups is a challenge.

 

[Howlermonkey]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

"F" and "R" likely mean "front" and "rear" so maybe check for a company who used that nomenclature?

 

[brashboy]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

"F" and "R" likely mean "front" and "rear" so maybe check for a company who used that nomenclature?

Very difficult to research due to the lack of markings or anything. There might have been a sticker once upon a time. All commenters seem to agree that it was likely a bargain Asian pickup made to look like a Dimarzio and that the stamped letters mean Front and Rear. They are not uncommon.

I have not been able to put a name to it, though. Could it be the same factory that make the Matsumoku MMKs?

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

My Epiphone pickups use R and F marks like that.

 

[brashboy]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

My Epiphone pickups use R and F marks like that.

OOOhhh, can you tell me model and year? I'm assuming they are stock...

Course, the F and R might not be a single maker's mark but could be a common convention for Asian and probably Chinese makers.

 

[Discharged]

Re: Help identifying a Japanese humbuckers, pls?

The "R" and "F" are stamped on the baseplates just because they have different polepiece spacings. At that time, China wasn't making p'ups, so those are most probably Korean and the same nameless factories provided unmarked p'ups to the whole world. I stand firm with my assessment of those being cheap contraptions put'em there just to be able to sell the guitar. Was it a pawnshop find, by any chance?

/Peter