Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

[JimmyO]

Seymour Duncan 59 set or Dimarzio Paf 36th set.

Upgrading an old 80s Les Paul copy which has a rich powerful tone. Current pickups are cheap and microphonic. Big mahogany body and big slab of maple.

I have a 59 neck pickup in a mahogany body Kramer Pacer classic and love it.

I have a PAF 36th neck pickup in an alder body superstrat parts caster and also love it.

Will be playing classic 70s rock and 60s British Blues through a JTM45 with no pedals. Don't need to split the coils.

Have to also buy new wiring, pots, bridge and tuners and a good setup, so can't afford expensive pickups. I can get a set of either 59s or PAF36ths new for $130. Had great experience with both companies. Hopefully comparing apple with apples.

Please help me choose, your thoughts, experiences with either pickup, thanks!

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

I would want to know a little more about the host guitar first.

 

[JimmyO]

Re: Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

I would want to know a little more about the host guitar first.

It's a GTX 36 Les Paul copy made in Korea in the late 80s. It has a mahogany body and thick maple cap. I've owned it since the early 90's and want to restore it. The neck is an awesome 50's feel and the woods used and construction are good, but the hardware and electronics are cheap and the bridge has oxidized through use. The binding is yellowed and cracked with age and it has a great worn in mojo. I used to have a JB in the bridge back in the 90's but it was too strong sounding in the mids and I moved it to a different guitar with good results. Let me know if there is anything you specifically would like to know about the guitar, thanks.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

I like the PAF 36ths better than '59's. That said, Duncan has other PAF-style pickups that I like better than either, like the Pearly Gateses and the Seth Lovers.

 

[JimmyO]

Re: Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

The other Seymour Duncan pickups like the Pearly gates, Seth Lover, WLH are priced about $30+ more each pickup, for two pickups that would be $60+ which is about the same as the cost of a 50s wiring harness from mojotone or some nice tuners etc. Are the differences in tone between the 59s/Paf 36ths and the more expensive Duncan's significant? I did look at the Seth Lovers but want the pickups potted. All the Dimarzios are about the same price so if they have alternate pickups than the paf36ths for classic rock it would be easy to consider them. Thanks for the suggestions, please keep them coming.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

Well, its just my opinion, but out of all the Duncan PAF-style pickups, I dislike the '59's and the Jazzes the most, especially when talking about the sound you are after. They seem to be the coldest and to have the least character to me. They're both sort of "blocky" and "stiff" sounding IME, and that's through my low-wattage amps, which get very loose very quickly (around 2.5 to 3 on the volume knob). They sound even more sterile through an amp with more headroom. Those A5 magnets need a hotter wind to sound good IMHO (e.g. the WLH and '59/Custom Hybrid), and they also benefit from being played with lots of gain/OD.

A2's, OTOH, handle the lower winds very sweetly and gracefully, while still sounding angry when needed. Great, great matches for the bass-anemic JTM45! So, yeah. To me, the extra money is well worth it...or you could go for A2 Pros, which are in the same price range as '59's and Jazzes, but have the A2 magnets of those more expensive models like PGs, Seths, and Slashes. To me, the AIIPs are probably SD's most under-rated pickups. Not necessarily the best, but the ones that get the least credit for being as good as they are for as little as they cost.

 

[toneseeker74]

Re: Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

Of the two pickups you asked about, definitely the DiMarzio's. I find the 59 pretty generic sounding. Not bad, just nothing remarkable. If you want to consider others I would recommend Seth Lovers (awesome!) or DiMarzio Virtual Vintage PAF's (very nice, but discontinued) if you can find them. I believe that the Air Classic is the same or at least very close to the Virtual Vintage PAF.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

Yup. No question the DiMarzios would be my choice in this case.

 

[JimmyO]

Re: Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

Thanks for the advice. Looks like there is not so much love for the 59, at least for my setup. My only other Les Paul is an Epiphone Joe Perry with the alnico ii Burstbucker 2 & 3 and they sound nice through the JTM45, if anything the neck sounds a bit too thick, but still great for blues. I may have to check out the Alnico ii pros, they are not much more money than the pickups I'm looking at. The PAF 36th uses airbucker technology which I think is Dimarzios way of getting an alnico ii feel with an alnico v magnet.

Also the Seth Lovers seem to get great reviews but I am a little apprehensive about them not being wax potted. Getting the JTM45 singing means having to crank it up a ways and I'd be a little worried about microphonic squeeling. Has anyone had experience with the Seth Lovers with a loud and overdriven amp?

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

The 36ths are louder than the 59s. They will be better to overdrive the JTM45 without any help.

PAF 36th uses airbucker technology which I think is Dimarzios way of getting an alnico ii feel with an alnico v magnet.

That applys to their Air Classic, but the 36th sounds A5 despite the "Air", at least to me. The 36th has got some high end bite to it. If your running it through green backs they will play well together, but you might find it a bit bright through other speakers.

for the bass-anemic JTM45!

???

 

[blueman335]

Re: Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

'59's are pretty good PU's. Their main shortcoming is that they're frequently bassy/boomy in the neck slot of LP's (they don't have that issue in SG's).

 

[JimmyO]

Re: Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

'59's are pretty good PU's. Their main shortcoming is that they're frequently bassy/boomy in the neck slot of LP's (they don't have that issue in SG's).

Thank you for the feedback, with the JTM 45 I usually find myself winding the bass down and the mids and treble further up. It has quite a bit of bass, so having a boomy pickup may not be the best, at least in this guitar and amp combination. I did have good luck with a 59 in a mahogany kramer pacer, but it has a Floyd and is totally different to a les paul. I think based on everyone's suggestions I am considering either the Dimarzio paf 36ths or air classics, or the seymour duncan alnico ii pros. Shame that there's no sure way to know until you install the pickups.

 

[toneseeker74]

Re: Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

Yeah, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and try some pickups out to at least have a reference point to know whether you want a softer/firmer attack, more/less of any frequency, etc. There are plenty of great deals to be had with used pickups. And both Duncan and DiMarzio have return policies that will let you try a different pickup if the first one wasn't to your liking.

 

[Hot Octopus]

Re: Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

I'd do a SH-11b and a PGn, but that's me.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

I am considering either the Dimarzio paf 36ths or air classics, or the seymour duncan alnico ii pros. Shame that there's no sure way to know until you install the pickups.

I have an A2P set and like them a lot, but they have a lot of mids. I prefer them over PG's, as their neck has more treble than a PGN, and the bridge is fuller.

As far as knowing in advance what a PU will sound like in your guitar: that's the thing that frustrates many players: there's so many variables in the EQ network, and PU's are only one part of it. The wood, guitar design, pots, pedals, amp, tubes, and speakers all leave their imprint on the tone. Even the type and length of cable does. Plus the string gauge, pick, and playing style also impact it. And that's why I don't listen to anyone's clips or make my own. No two players have the same set of variables, so comparisons are worthless. A PU in a Strat thru a solid state amp will sound nothing like it would in an LP thru a tube amp. You wouldn't even know it's the same PU.

Basically, you make your best choice, put in a PU, and see what it sounds like. What many of us here have learned on this forum, is what we can do to get that PU sounding like we want it to. There's many ways to do that, and the average player has no idea of his options. That's one of the things that makes this forum great. We can take a guitar that doesn't play or sound very good, and turn it into a keeper.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

Forget both of those and get the Whole Lotta humbucker set. Best set I've played in my les Paul.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

Forget both of those and get the Whole Lotta humbucker set. Best set I've played in my les Paul.

Did you try Seth's in it?

 

[JimmyO]

Re: Help me choose Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF

I totally agree with the setup, guitar, amp being very dependent for how the pickup is going to sound. The only thing I have that may help is a little video I made when I'd just bought the amp, an Avatar 45, a US handmade JTM 45. I have it cranked up and was wearing earplugs so it sounds a little more harsh than it was live as it was clipping my iphone mic input, put it gives you the general idea of my setup. The amp and cab (2x12 Eminence Governors) were brand new and just breaking in.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGqQdrC8HY

The guitar is my other les paul, an epiphone boneyard, the Joe Perry signature with the Alnico ii burstbucker 3 and 2 pickups. You can see at the end of the clip I hold the guitar close to the speakers to see if the pickups squeal, as the pickups are not potted as far as I know, and they do fine with no problems. However I am not sure how sensitive Seth Lovers are, maybe you can help me here.

It is funny that you mentioned the WLH set, but they are a fair bit more expensive so I 'd be interested to hear what they can do over other pickups in Seymour Duncan or Dimarzios range. Once you get up to $225 for a set the whole discussion of boutique winders comes up and I'm trying to keep the project somewhat on a budget. They are worth considering though, if I don't spend the extra money on pickups my wife would just spend it at Target

I get the feeling the Alnico ii pros would sound nice, sweet, warm and round in the GTX Les Paul. I have a PAF36th neck pickup wired straight the the volume pot of my superstrat so I'm not worried about it being too bright in the Les Paul, and I 'm thinking it would have a bit more definition than an Alnico ii. The Seth Lovers sound nice and I'd be interested to hear what conditions people do/do not experience microphonic issues. And yes there are the WLHs which I am sure are awesome. I need to see if the extra awesomeness is worth the extra $. Decisions decisions. Thanks again for the suggestions everyone.