help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

[overwound]

I emailed this question to SD directly but didn't get an answer. Kind of a boneheaded question, but I don't want to get this wrong.

Basically, I know for sure I want the Antiquity II Surfers as a set of 3 for an american standard strat. I just can't figure out the part numbers for each position.

Since it appears you can't buy them as a set of 3, I can't figure out from the various online retailers what part number the neck vs. bridge (not the custom bridge higher output - the regular one) is.

Can anyone confirm for me:
-The neck and non custom bridge are interchangeable positionally, therefore both would be part no. 11024-09??
-RW/RP middle is part no. 11024-10??

??

Thank you for your help on my first thread.

 

[DreX]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291136684729

 

[overwound]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

Ok thanks, but that has the custom bridge, which would solve my dilemma if I was going to get that, but I want the normal output bridge. So is there a dedicated Antiquity surfer (non-custom higher output), or is the neck also a bridge (so you'd install 11024-09 in neck and bridge)?

This also raises the question - are these calibrated sets? This http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/stratocaster/vintage-output/1102409_08_10_a/ suggests the answer is yes even if you buy them one at a time? Sorry - been playing for years but this is my first pickup replacement.

 

[DreX]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

That ebay set I linked to is as close as you can get to a balanced set, but I think balanced sets are overrated, and are not even vintage correct. Old Fender pickups didn't come in calibrated sets, nor with RWRP middle pickups. If you don't get the hot wound "Custom Bridge" then you'd just put another neck pickup (11024-09) in the bridge position for a 6.3K resistance wind in all tree spots, with the middle being the RWRP model (11024-10) , but if I were you I'd skip the RWRP as it cancels some nice tone along with the hum, and instead just get three of the 11024-09 neck pickups.

The other thing is that the Antiquities won't be a perfect 6.3K resistance. They will come with little tags that say what the DC resistance is on them, and with this information you can just manually put the hottest one in the bridge and then the next hottest in the middle, and the weakest in the neck for a DIY calibrated set. See the pic below as an example: 6.45K and 6.39K. Mine were even farther off than these, and I ordered them hottest to coolest.

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

DreX is right, you just get 2 neck pickups.

 

[overwound]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

Thanks DreX and and zen. That is awesome info. I had no idea they came with those cards showing exact resistance. Truly awesome.

This prospect of getting a non-reverse-wound middle pickup is something I've never considered - Do you think you lose something in the 2 and 4 positions with RW/RP? Or do you gain something tonally across all positions? I found a very interesting thread about the Antiquity surfers where the OP says:

"That's what I feel the diff is too, only I think it thins out the tone of the guitar in all settings of the 5 way switch...not just the #2 and #4 settings.

My Strats seem to sound ballsier now that I've gotten rid of the RW/RP middle pickups."

I am not necessarily trying to recreate 'the strat of the 60's' or anything, so no hum in 2 and 4 has always just been a bonus to me since all my strats are wired in the normal amer standard way (94 forward). I have never considered what would happen if one wasn't RW/RP. So thanks for any guidance here.

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

Thanks DreX and and zen. That is awesome info. I had no idea they came with those cards showing exact resistance. Truly awesome.

This prospect of getting a non-reverse-wound middle pickup is something I've never considered - Do you think you lose something in the 2 and 4 positions with RW/RP? Or do you gain something tonally across all positions? I found a very interesting thread about the Antiquity surfers where the OP says:

"That's what I feel the diff is too, only I think it thins out the tone of the guitar in all settings of the 5 way switch...not just the #2 and #4 settings.

My Strats seem to sound ballsier now that I've gotten rid of the RW/RP middle pickups."

I am not necessarily trying to recreate 'the strat of the 60's' or anything, so no hum in 2 and 4 has always just been a bonus to me since all my strats are wired in the normal amer standard way (94 forward). I have never considered what would happen if one wasn't RW/RP. So thanks for any guidance here.

The strategy of not having a RWRP middle position is just crazy. Never understood what a lot of people were trying to do there.

I think when most people think of a stratocaster, they think of Mark Knopfler and SRV, not Buddy Holly and Ritchie Valens. The increased chime and quack one gets with a RWRP middle is a design improvement, coupled with the ability to be noise free in case the band is set up near the popcorn machine (or the bar has some bad wiring) is a GOOD thing.

You just get some more midrange and a bit more presence with a non RWRP middle... not a good trade-off... the advantages don't outweigh the disadvantages IMHO.

 

[DreX]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

Thanks DreX and and zen. That is awesome info. I had no idea they came with those cards showing exact resistance. Truly awesome.

This prospect of getting a non-reverse-wound middle pickup is something I've never considered - Do you think you lose something in the 2 and 4 positions with RW/RP? Or do you gain something tonally across all positions? I found a very interesting thread about the Antiquity surfers where the OP says:

"That's what I feel the diff is too, only I think it thins out the tone of the guitar in all settings of the 5 way switch...not just the #2 and #4 settings.

My Strats seem to sound ballsier now that I've gotten rid of the RW/RP middle pickups."

I am not necessarily trying to recreate 'the strat of the 60's' or anything, so no hum in 2 and 4 has always just been a bonus to me since all my strats are wired in the normal amer standard way (94 forward). I have never considered what would happen if one wasn't RW/RP. So thanks for any guidance here.

Here's a video demoing the difference between RWRP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2Z7ZIKAXTA

After watching the video, I do think RWRP sucks up a little bit of high end response. I also don't believe RWRP makes any difference in positions in 1,3,5 and I've never heard a convincing argument for why it should.

When it comes to electrics, I like to have straight sets, all humbuckers or all single coils, because when you decide to use single coils, you're going to have to deal with hum whether you like it or not. I'd rather prepare myself for hum in all five positions and choose my pickup strictly based on tone, and not have the fact that one position hums and another doesn't influence which tone I select. In other words 2,4 RWRP makes 1,3,5 look bad, and I prefer that they all seem equal. RWRP wasn't offered until the late 70's or early 80's, so not only is vintage incorrect, but I'd say it's a relatively modern change.

I think when most people think of a stratocaster, they think of Mark Knopfler and SRV, not Buddy Holly and Ritchie Valens. The increased chime and quack one gets with a RWRP middle is a design improvement,

SRV's Strat was not RWRP according to David Allen http://www.dallenpickups.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Ap-TXFLD , and there is absolutely no less chime or quack if you forego RWRP. I think you might be confusing RWRP with in phase / out of phase wiring.

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

After watching the video, I do think RWRP sucks up a little bit of high end response. I also don't believe RWRP makes any difference in positions in 1,3,5 and I've never heard a convincing argument for why it should.

When it comes to electrics, I like to have straight sets, all humbuckers or all single coils, because when you decide to use single coils, you're going to have to deal with hum whether you like it or not. I'd rather prepare myself for hum in all five positions and choose my pickup strictly based on tone, and not have the fact that one position hums and another doesn't influence which tone I select. In other words 2,4 RWRP makes 1,3,5 look bad, and I prefer that they all seem equal. RWRP wasn't offered until the late 70's or early 80's, so not only is vintage incorrect, but I'd say it's a relatively modern change.

SRV's Strat was not RWRP according to David Allen http://www.dallenpickups.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Ap-TXFLD , and there is absolutely no less chime or quack if you forego RWRP. I think you might be confusing RWRP with in phase / out of phase wiring.

The reality is that the tones that SRV got in 2 and 4 are totally achievable with a RWRP middle... nothing you can't get achieve with a normal RWRP middle.

EMI/RFI interference is also a reality. I'm not sure what ivory towers people are playing their non RWRP middle equipped strats in where they never have the need for hum canceling... must live in Faraday cages.

The argument that 2 and 4 makes 1, 3 and 5 somehow look bad seems a bit superficial... it's not like the selector switch moves on it's own... if someone doesn't want the gorgeous signal to noise ratio of hum canceling, they just don't put it in 2 or 4.

 

[uOpt]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

I would get 3 necks or 3 middle.

I don't claim to have come to a conclusion about whether rwrp leads to an audible change with single pickup on, but I'm not taking prisoners anymore. I got burned by piling up too many of the "unnoticeable" changes until you could clearly hear that it's a turd.

Having said that, which Strat pickup comes out best is quite a bit guitar specific. If you really want to shoot for the best I would go through a couple of single pickups you ebay on and off and record for reference. For some guitars I find the original Ant ("Texas hot") comes out better. The Surfer can be too thin in some guitars (although it isn't in most).

 

[DreX]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

EMI/RFI interference is also a reality. I'm not sure what ivory towers people are playing their non RWRP middle equipped strats in where they never have the need for hum canceling... must live in Faraday cages.

The argument that 2 and 4 makes 1, 3 and 5 somehow look bad seems a bit superficial... it's not like the selector switch moves on it's own... if someone doesn't want the gorgeous signal to noise ratio of hum canceling, they just don't put it in 2 or 4.

If you're of the opinion that 60 Hz hum is problematic, I'd suggest getting humbuckers that mimic single coil tone, so that you have no hum in any position. If 60Hz hum is to be regarded as a problem, then RWRP can't be seen as anything other than a half-assed solution, except that 2 out of 5 is even less than half.

I'm not a big fan of stacked single coils, but I LOVE Duckbuckers, and not even for the fact that they are hum cancelling.

I'm willing to bet that a lot of players who have trouble with hum don't keep their guitar volume down when they're not playing, use high gain (beyond boost/overdrive and into distortion) and don't bother to see if anything in their surroundings are causing the problem. I've found that dimmer light switches single handedly produce more hum than anything other piece of electronics in a room, but if someone doesn't know to check for such things, then it would be tempting to put all the blame on the single coil pickups. As for high gain / distortion with single coils, I'm always surprised to see people do this in YouTube videos and elsewhere. IMO, single coils sound like a mess with amounts of gain that go much beyond boost / overdrive.

 

[LReese]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

The strategy of not having a RWRP middle position is just crazy. Never understood what a lot of people were trying to do there.

I must be crazy. I have this urge to rip anything RWRP (Single Coils) out of my Strats (and I have a number of them).

My $.02 on the RWRP thing is it makes the combo positions thin out and lose a little output. Its small in the scheme of things but it bothers me.

If you're gigging ( I don't) that would be a different consideration. If I did I might have to consider a compromise. I've spent a lot of $$ chasing noise free operation and basically gave up (with 1 exception). I liked rails type pickups, but had a few issues with those.

If you can spare the $$ there is a way to cancel the noise - really close to total transparency. Its going to cost though. Suhr offers a system on their guitars and Ilitch electronics offers a system that will work with other Fenders.

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

If you're of the opinion that 60 Hz hum is problematic, I'd suggest getting humbuckers that mimic single coil tone, so that you have no hum in any position. If 60Hz hum is to be regarded as a problem, then RWRP can't be seen as anything other than a half-assed solution, except that 2 out of 5 is even less than half.

I'm not a big fan of stacked single coils, but I LOVE Duckbuckers, and not even for the fact that they are hum cancelling.

I'm willing to bet that a lot of players who have trouble with hum don't keep their guitar volume down when they're not playing, use high gain (beyond boost/overdrive and into distortion) and don't bother to see if anything in their surroundings are causing the problem. I've found that dimmer light switches single handedly produce more hum than anything other piece of electronics in a room, but if someone doesn't know to check for such things, then it would be tempting to put all the blame on the single coil pickups. As for high gain / distortion with single coils, I'm always surprised to see people do this in YouTube videos and elsewhere. IMO, single coils sound like a mess with amounts of gain that go much beyond boost / overdrive.

Two single coils where one is RWRP is still waaaay better sounding than a stacked single coil.

 

[Bludave]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

You should consider a Reverse wound reverse polarity for the middle position, this way when you have the position switch in 2 & 4 it will cancel any 60 cycle hum. I have a set in my Strat(great pickups too) I have the reverse polarity/wound in the middle & I believe the bridge is also a touch hotter. I think custom cant remember they have been in this guitar since I have had it.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

I had a reverse wound/reverse polarity in my strat once for about 15 seconds. The 2 and 4 positions lost so much volume by the cancellation, didn't have the right quack and chime at all, but rather sounded like absolute useless ****. I decided I will deal with buzzes in order to have the right Strat tone and flipped the +/- on the middle pu. Buzz interference is actually manageable. Fully shield the cavity, ground it, and just orient yourself away from significant interference sources.

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

I had a reverse wound/reverse polarity in my strat once for about 15 seconds. The 2 and 4 positions lost so much volume by the cancellation, didn't have the right quack and chime at all, but rather sounded like absolute useless ****. I decided I will deal with buzzes in order to have the right Strat tone and flipped the +/- on the middle pu. Buzz interference is actually manageable. Fully shield the cavity, ground it, and just orient yourself away from significant interference sources.

It's still magnetically reverse polarity, all you did was reverse the wind direction... those pickups are now out of phase.

 

[DreX]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

I'd guess they were out of phase to begin with. Out of phase is quieter than in phase.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

It's still magnetically reverse polarity, all you did was reverse the wind direction... those pickups are now out of phase.

Ok, so I'll go with normal wound/reverse polarity. Reverse wound and reverse polarity absolutely sucked, for me.

 

[LReese]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

BB does hit on a point. Hum is a lot of times manageable.

Not in every instance, but can be managed. Use batteries or isolated power to pedals. Keep gain under control, make sure there are no found loops.

I've had some bad issues here in the last 10 years and learned how to fix/work around them. Even this week I pulled a RWRP out of a guitar - oddly enough it was strangely quiet (into a single amp) afterwards - the rest of the (2 amp when fully hooked up) rig hummed louder, but I knew I had a couple of ground loops going in the rig I haven't gotten around to addressing..

 

[overwound]

Re: help me with Antiquity II Surfer part numbers for each position

Thanks for all the feedback. Very interesting discussion here for someone who's never switched out their pickups and just read about it for what - 20 yrs of playing strats almost exclusively. Lots of food for thought. That video from bare knuckle - you can definitely hear a difference. I have never really used the 2 and 4 positions, but the mud and tone change is part of the reason why. And it just doesn't work into my music clean. I mainly need a really clear, articulate bridge and neck - and that antiquity surf sounds just wonderful, like what i've been looking for for years. I have not purchased a strat since the 90's, and I must say that trying out the brand new American Standards, I am sorely disappointed in the custom fat 50's pickups that come stock. That's what brought me here. The stock pickups in my 90's american standards sound way better to me at least. At first I was going to go with CS 69's from Fender, but I'm not trying to sound like hendrix - trying to sound like..myself. And the antiquities seem to give you that creative space. So we'll see. You have helped me out here a lot - thanks.