Help needed with custom wiring

[fabian98h23]

Hi
I've done a telecaster by parts in the style of a custom '72. It has a humbucker in the neck, a tele bridge pickup in the bridge, a 3-way les paul type switch and two volume pots (I didn't put tone pots). Both pots are push pull; the one that controls the neck pickup is wired for coil-splitting and the one with the single coil is wired to make a phase change. The neck pickup and the coil-split work perfectly. The problem comes with the bridge pickup, it works only if the pot is in the up position. With the switch in the middle position things get a bit weirder. The guitar only makes noise if the push pull of the bridge pickup is in the up position but it doesn't work neither if one of the pots is rolled down to 0. Does anybody know what is going on in my guitar? How can I make it sound as it is sopposed to sound?

P.S. I am new in the forum, if I have made any mistake please tell me

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring

Welcome Fabian-
Just to be sure, are you certain that it is wired for out of phase as opposed to putting the pups in series?
No sounds in the middle with both vols at 0 can be normal behavior.
Can you post photos from multiple angles- this should be easy to trouble shoot.
Cheers,
Zstrat

 

[BriGuy1968]

Help needed with custom wiring

Hi fabian98h23, and welcome to the forum! [emoji41]

A photo of your wiring and/or a copy of the diagram you followed would be helpful to troubleshoot your problem, but let me list a few things back at you in order to make sure I understand what you have and what's happening:

Features:
• Neck Humbucker
• Bridge Single Coil
• 2 volumes, 0 tones
• 3-way toggle
• Neck volume p/p splits neck pickup
• Bridge volume p/p reverses phase... which pickup are you reversing?

Problems:
• Bridge pickup only works with the phase reverse switch "up"
• When toggle is in the middle, lowering either volume to zero shuts off both pickups.

My thoughts:
• Something is awry in your phase reverse push/pull. Pics needed.
• The volumes are wired like typical LP dual volume controls which act exactly like what you're describing. There is, however, a way to make them independent of one another by simply reversing two wires on each pot:

 

[fabian98h23]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring

Hi fabian98h23, and welcome to the forum! [emoji41]

A photo of your wiring and/or a copy of the diagram you followed would be helpful to troubleshoot your problem, but let me list a few things back at you in order to make sure I understand what you have and what's happening:

Features:
• Neck Humbucker
• Bridge Single Coil
• 2 volumes, 0 tones
• 3-way toggle
• Neck volume p/p splits neck pickup
• Bridge volume p/p reverses phase... which pickup are you reversing?

Problems:
• Bridge pickup only works with the phase reverse switch "up"
• When toggle is in the middle, lowering either volume to zero shuts off both pickups.

My thoughts:
• Something is awry in your phase reverse push/pull. Pics needed.
• The volumes are wired like typical LP dual volume controls which act exactly like what you're describing. There is, however, a way to make them independent of one another by simply reversing two wires on each pot:

I can upload photos of the guitar, but i don't have any of how I wired the guitar. I used a lot of diagrams, all coming from the Internet, and I don't think I can find them all. However I will try to make a drawing of how I wired it.
The solution to the dependent pots sounds right to me, I will try it as soon as I can.
Here I attach a photo of the guitar.
Thank you very much.

 

[fabian98h23]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring

Welcome Fabian-
Just to be sure, are you certain that it is wired for out of phase as opposed to putting the pups in series?
No sounds in the middle with both vols at 0 can be normal behavior.
Can you post photos from multiple angles- this should be easy to trouble shoot.
Cheers,
Zstrat

I don't know if it is phase change or series. The diagram that I followed said it was phase change, but what I want is the brian may switching. I have uploaded a photo of the guitar and I am working on a schematic of what I've done. However, I attach a photo of what I did with that pot.
Thanks for the help

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring

I don't know if it is phase change or series. The diagram that I followed said it was phase change, but what I want is the brian may switching. I have uploaded a photo of the guitar and I am working on a schematic of what I've done. However, I attach a photo of what I did with that pot.
Thanks for the help

That diagram is phase, so if that's exactly what you did, then that's not the cause.
Agreed with Briguy, we need photos next-

Did you not open it up because you put new strings on? If so, I simply release the strings at the tunners, I put a strip of Velcro around them and move them them down past the bottom of the guitar- They are out of the way, and easy reinstall.

 

[fabian98h23]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring


This is a diagram of how I have wired it. Please tell me if you find any error. In a few days I'll open it, but I won't have time this weekend. However I would prefer to open it once I have any idea of what may be wrong. It is also a bit difficult to disassemble because the body comes from a regular hh tele so the pickups' wires have to go through a hole in the wood. Could the problem be the ground wiring? May swapping the white and black wires from the white pickup solve anything?

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring

In general, that looks workable-
1. Changing white and black on the bridge pup would just flip phase- same thing that the push pull is doing, so no impact
2. Assuming yellow lead from neck pup is actually green, but doesn't really matter as long as it's the end of final coil

My guess when you open it up-
1. Something isn't wired as shown in the diagram
2. Likely that it's related to the phase push pull
3. Unlikely that it's a bad component, but unhooking and following signal with a Mmeter is next step and you will be able to isolate the switch, pickups, etc.

Good luck chasing and send us photos if you don't find the problem.

 

[fabian98h23]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring

In general, that looks workable-
1. Changing white and black on the bridge pup would just flip phase- same thing that the push pull is doing, so no impact
2. Assuming yellow lead from neck pup is actually green, but doesn't really matter as long as it's the end of final coil

My guess when you open it up-
1. Something isn't wired as shown in the diagram
2. Likely that it's related to the phase push pull
3. Unlikely that it's a bad component, but unhooking and following signal with a Mmeter is next step and you will be able to isolate the switch, pickups, etc.

Good luck chasing and send us photos if you don't find the problem.

I drew the green wire yellow because it is yellow in the pickup that I bought. I guess that if I flip the black and white wires from the bridge pickup it will work just as a regular pot, and will give no sound in the up position. As soon as I have time I will check if everything is well soldered. Is it possible to use the pot of the bridge pickup to change phase of the neck one?
Thank you for your answers

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring

Switching White and Black simply changes when the pup is out of phase, up or down. If black lead is the start of the tele coil, then you are in phase when the push is down, out of phase when up.

Changing the phase of the neck pickup isn't required- flipping phase requires 2 pups, so when you flip the phase of the bridge and select both pups they are out of phase with each other-

Next step is to check your connections and follow the list from above-

My guess when you open it up-
1. Something isn't wired as shown in the diagram
2. Likely that it's related to the phase push pull
3. Unlikely that it's a bad component, but unhooking and following signal with a Mmeter is next step and you will be able to isolate the switch, pickups, etc.

 

[fabian98h23]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring

I have opened the guitar and I did two things
1.- Change the white and black pickup wires from the bridge
2.- Change the pot's output and pickup output like BriGuy1968 said to make the pots independent

I don't own a multimeter, so I couldn't measure anything. Here I have a photo of the electronics before touching anything.

Now the bridge pickup sounds when the pot is in the done position but not in the upper one. In the middle position of the switch both pots are independant. But another problem has appeared: the guitar has lost a lot of treble and it only has treble with the volume at ten, whenever you decrease the volume it loses all the treble. It also has a lot of noise when the volume is low, even the humbucker.
Any idea of what causes this or how can I fix it?

Thank you very much for your replies, you've helped me a lot.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring

Hey Fabian, how about getting us a couple of close-ups of the wiring on the three main pieces? I can't really see anything from the side.

 

[fabian98h23]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring

Hey Fabian, how about getting us a couple of close-ups of the wiring on the three main pieces? I can't really see anything from the side.

I'll try to get better shots after the weekend. I am going to be busy these days, but I'll do it as soon as I can.
Thanks for the help

 

[fabian98h23]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring

Yesterday I removed the pickguard and I did some photos. I'll keep the guitar without pickguard for some days so I can try different wirings without having to get the strings off (my b string died yesterday). I have uploaded some photos of the pots and the switch, I hope that you can see everything better now (I know soldering is not muy best skill). At the moment I have the guitar wired with the pots being dependent. I tríed wiring the pots as BríGuy told me but I had a massive treble loss so I wired it again the was it was. Can this be solved by adding a treble bleed?
Thank you very much and if you need more specific photos, ley me know

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring

Fabian, I tried to follow, but between wire colors and views I just can't see what goes where.

However, the treble loss with independent volumes us expected and treble bleeds are the answer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[fabian98h23]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring

Fabian, I tried to follow, but between wire colors and views I just can't see what goes where.

However, the treble loss with independent volumes us expected and treble bleeds are the answer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

I know that the wires are very messy, but I've checked it and it follows the diagram that I uploaded. Now I'm considering several options:

-Leaving the guitar just like this (adding the treble bleed), it will have 5 positions (bridge, neck, neck splitted, bridge and neck, bridge and neck splitted) and the push pull of the bridge pickup will act as a killswitch, which is nice.
-Trying to use the push pull of the bridge as a phase changer to the neck pickup. This would give me a sixth sound, the out of phase sound that I was looking for, but I don't even know if this is possible. Is it?

Which can be the best option?

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring

If you are starting from scratch, yes a 5 way switch can give you those combinations (be sure to research which switch or get a superswitch that can do practically anything).

Considering why it's not clear how you are currently getting a kill switch, I would simply design a regular kill switch circuit into the new design- it's nothing but a short across the jack poles.

As far as putting the pups out of phase, your diagram was correct- if you wire exactly as shown, you will put pups out of phase when you flip the switch.

Last, from someone who learned by doing, I would suggest drawing a clean diagram that you understand that fits your guitar and think wire length, paths and colors out from the beginning- we all had to learn how to solder well, however clean design and wiring makes trouble shooting much easier-

Also, if you aren't completely sold on making changes, you might bump this thread a few times to see if anyone else can see the problems in your current design.

Peace,
Mickey

 

[fabian98h23]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring

If you are starting from scratch, yes a 5 way switch can give you those combinations (be sure to research which switch or get a superswitch that can do practically anything).

Considering why it's not clear how you are currently getting a kill switch, I would simply design a regular kill switch circuit into the new design- it's nothing but a short across the jack poles.

As far as putting the pups out of phase, your diagram was correct- if you wire exactly as shown, you will put pups out of phase when you flip the switch.

Last, from someone who learned by doing, I would suggest drawing a clean diagram that you understand that fits your guitar and think wire length, paths and colors out from the beginning- we all had to learn how to solder well, however clean design and wiring makes trouble shooting much easier-

Also, if you aren't completely sold on making changes, you might bump this thread a few times to see if anyone else can see the problems in your current design.

Peace,
Mickey

Thank you for your advices. What I meant with the killswitch is that, as the bridge pot doesn't make noise when it is in up position this can be used to mute the guitar whenever I don't want it to make noise. I am going to take advantage of all the problems that my guitar has to make and try new wirings and I hope one will work fine. Anyway I think these things can make me learn a lot for another time. I will update the project whenever I find a nice solution.

 

[fabian98h23]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring

After some days of testing different wirings I'm going to update this thread. What I wondered was if I could change phase flipping the wires from the neck pickup. I installed a regular pot and used the white wire as hot and the black as ground, and it worked fine. Then, I wired it the same way but using the black as hot and the white as ground and it didn't work. What I suppose is that there is a problem with the ground wiring, maybe because the pickup is attached to the bridge, which is used as ground. Any idea about this? The next thing I'm going to test is if changing what coil of the humbucker is splitted I can get the out of phase sound and, if I get it I will decide if I prefer having the middle position in phase or out of phase. I'll post the result soon.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Help needed with custom wiring

If the wire you are using as positive is connected to bridge, it is likely to ground assuming bridge is grounded.

Otherwise, flipping phase may be complicated if negative is connected to pup base or cover, however, you usually get sound + noise if that is the problem.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk