Help On Pedals

[barbarianbrute]

i recorded a few clips using a couple of pedals and i'd like some feedback. here's part of a gary moore solo that i recorded using three different pedals. please excuse the playing because it's been a long, long time since i played gary moore.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=756092

 

[ponch]

Re: Help On Pedals

Well I don't mean to dis, but I think you need a tuner, and you run too much gain for my liking. Go strait into a tube amp, cank it to like 5, then you will get a good tone.

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Help On Pedals

Well I don't mean to dis, but I think you need a tuner, and you run too much gain for my liking. Go strait into a tube amp, cank it to like 5, then you will get a good tone.

you're right, but it's my strings. they're like 3 1/2 weeks old, so my tone and tuning isn't that great. on one of hte clips you can actually hear the strings breaking up. also that's a hard song to play in tune without a background. he uses some half and 1/4th bends that you can't quite get to pitch right unless you're playing over the backing.

other than that and the distortion is there anything else?

 

[ponch]

Re: Help On Pedals

Nope, Kinda covered it all, What strings do you use, because mine are like 4 months old and they still sound fantastic.

 

[wahwah]

Re: Help On Pedals

All 3 samples suffer from just too much fizz, the result of too much gain and not enough substance in the tone of the amp. Of the three, I think the second has the most potential in that it has richer harmonic complexity. The first one is really nasal and thin, and the last one just sounds like bad modern preamp fizz. All three of these tones would get lost in a mix, even if they were loud. Preamp gain doesn't equal power, in fact too much of it actually weakens a signal, so maybe try backing off the gain by half and letting more of the note come through. Maybe post another run of clips after you've eradicated the gain overkill, and it might be easier to discern the difference between the pedals.



Cheers...........................wahwah

 

[ericmeyer4]

Re: Help On Pedals

Most of them sounded like you were under a little water and way too fizzy. Also it kept sounding like something was hitting the microphone.

BTW what pedals were you using?

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Help On Pedals

wow, i didn't hear any of the fizz you guys were talking about and i only had the gain at 12 o'clock. i never really go pat 12 or 1 even for the heaviest of metal.

in fact, i wasn't trying to get a bluesy sound or anything like that. i was basically trying the pedals out at medium gain. i didn't use any compression or effects except the slightest amount of reverb on my amp. the 3rd soundclip was actually not a pedal. turns out, i posted the wrong clip. the 3rd sample is actually my jvm.

i should have stated this, but i'm going for a distorted sound, not a smooth overdriven tone or anything. i typically play metal, so i typically like the grit and midrange crunch. anything positive about them?

 

[wahwah]

Re: Help On Pedals

wow, i didn't hear any of the fizz you guys were talking about and i only had the gain at 12 o'clock. i never really go pat 12 or 1 even for the heaviest of metal.

in fact, i wasn't trying to get a bluesy sound or anything like that. i was basically trying the pedals out at medium gain. i didn't use any compression or effects except the slightest amount of reverb on my amp. the 3rd soundclip was actually not a pedal. turns out, i posted the wrong clip. the 3rd sample is actually my jvm.

i should have stated this, but i'm going for a distorted sound, not a smooth overdriven tone or anything. i typically play metal, so i typically like the grit and midrange crunch. anything positive about them?

If they are metal style pedals, things like the Boss Metal Zone or EH Metal Muff, then they are notoriously, inherently fizzy to start with, even at half gain. What you are getting there is more like preamp distortion, whereas the really potent sounds come from power tube distortion, which is a very different animal and much tougher. It would normally require cranking the master volume, which can obviously be difficult with higher wattage amps. There are some pedals which will emulate this, including script or early block logo MXR Distortion + (not the Dunlop re-issues, they're crap) and the ZVex Box of Rock. The midrange you are pushing there is more like the 1kHz nasal variety, which is not giving you a very potent sound in any of the clips. A drum kit and a bass player would bury those sounds. Maybe explore the options of some different types of pedals.



Cheers............................wahwah

 

[James Rock]

Re: Help On Pedals

I found it very nasal, thin and fizzy. Didn't really like the tones at all. Second one was the best IMHO but I hated all of them. What amp and guitar? You should try raising the master volume up a bit to open up the sound! And 3 1/2 week old strings!? I play guitars with 6 month old strings that sound great (like them better then brand new strings). All that may sound a little harsh but you asked for opinion on the tones and there it is. I just found there was no real push or girth to the tone (which you really need if you play metal) just nasally overdriven sound (like going through a tubescreamer into a 5 watt solid state practice amp).

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Help On Pedals

What volume did you record at? It sounds like you are recording at a very low volume and the amp isn't putting any power tube mojo on the tone at all....very mushy and compressed. I couldn't for the life of me, tell what kind of guitar you were playing and I usually can. The tone you had would get buried live.

You could try recording at a higher volume to let the amp "breathe" a little and turn down the pre-gain a little.

It took me quite a while to learn that less gain generally means better and more organic tone.

I'm not a metal player, so I may be totally off base.

 

[Rich_T]

Re: Help On Pedals

That amp needs cranking. Get some power tube break up in there, rather than all the pre-amp gain.

 

[Gamera]

Re: Help On Pedals

Whatever happened to those El Diablo clips you were going to post? Did I miss 'em?

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Help On Pedals

i haven't got around to the el diablo yet because i'm still waiting on my 6l6 tubes from ebay. once i replace the stock el34s, i'm going to record some new clips.

by the way. i used my marshall jvm on the clean plexi channel with my pedals going into the guitar input. i only put the gain at 12 o'clock. the way i understand it is that only effects like reverb and delay go through the effects loop, and distortion is supposed to go into the input. i used a fender US strat with dimarzio virtual vintage solo for bridge and solo pro for neck.

i still don't hear the "nasal" and "fizzy" sound you guys are describing. maybe i'm tone deaf. this is frustrating as hell.

 

[millsart]

Re: Help On Pedals

What type of speakers/monitors are you listening to your tracks on ? Your mixdown maybe sounds quite different that how everyone else is hearing it ?

I hate to be one to sort of pile it on so to speak but they did sound pretty poor tonewise to me. Very thin and shrill with plenty of ear taxing upper harmonics. I just got no body or warmth from the tones.

Was this a miking cab or recorded direct ?

 

[Gamera]

Re: Help On Pedals

i haven't got around to the el diablo yet because i'm still waiting on my 6l6 tubes from ebay. once i replace the stock el34s, i'm going to record some new clips.

I'd be interested in hearing a comparison actually when you get those tubes in. Play the same thing on the same settings with the stock tubes then with the new tubes. I've been told there's a big difference in gain but I've not heard it stock to know for sure.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Help On Pedals

First of all, the song choice isn't doing you any favours. You are trying for some seriously high gain it sounds like, and it's making this tune sound screamy.

Compression on all three clips is off the charts and has killed any dynamics you may have included in your playing. This is typical in high gain situations, but it seems excessive even here. It's hard to say exactly where the source of that is, but it's probably a combination of factors (pickups + pedals + amp). It's also very likely that you're oversaturating your mic. What mic are you using on these tracks?

If I had to pick a favourite, it would be #3, but I'm really not fond of any of these tones. The distortion is over the top, the compression is massive, and everyone commenting on the fizziness is right on. There is almost no bass frequency in any of these clips. I picked #3 because it sounded like it had a bit of low end in it and slightly less fizziness.

To get a tone that would work well with this type of melody, I would suggest the following:

1. Turn down the amp gain
2. Turn up the master volume
3. Use an overdrive pedal instead of a distortion (you don't need to add preamp distortion - you just want to push the amp harder).
4. If you're using a compressor, ditch it
5. Find a better mic and/or mic pre

I find that using a distortion pedal in front of a high gain amp only works if you want something like a Nirvana, Nine Inch Nails, or Smashing Pumpkins type of tone. If you want searing leads like what you're trying for in this clip, an overdrive works a lot better.

Alternately, you could go the Brian May route and boost the crap out of a dimed class A amp.

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Help On Pedals

alright thanks for the tips, but what's really the difference between overdrive and distortion? i thought they were essentially the same thing except that one sounded smoother than the other.

if i use my metal muff at low gain settings, it sounds like my overdrive at moderate settings. besides, why not just use the amp distortion? i know it's possible to get a decent tone out of my marshall at bedroom levels, but i don't know how to do it. i've been assured though by pro musicians that it can easily be done.

i think you hit the nail on the head though. i'm not using the right distortion/gain settings for that song. i should have used a tube screamer or something. i'm going to try recording something heavy and see if that helps with distorted tone.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Help On Pedals

In simple terms: a distortion pedal clips the signal to create distortion at any volume. An overdrive pedal usually works by boosting and compressing the signal, which forces the amp into clipping.

The key difference is that with a distortion, most of the clipping is happening in the pedal. With an overdrive, most of the clipping is provided by the amp.

The reason your disto pedal sounds like an overdrive at low gain is because you're essentially using it as an overdrive in that case - you're boosting the signal without clipping it excessively. As you turn up the gain, you add more clipping to the signal coming out of the pedal.

The difference between od and dist is most apparent when played through a really clean amp. A distortion pedal will make a clean amp sound distorted. An overdrive pedal will make it sound louder, boomier, and maybe slightly clipped - on some amps it might sound really bad, in fact. OD works best in front of an amp that's already dirty, or just sitting on the edge of being dirty - it gives the signal that extra push needed to get into fat, saturated tube distortion.

If you're having problems getting your amp to sound big at bedroom levels, maybe you should look into getting an attenuator.

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Help On Pedals

thanks, that's the kind of information i'm looking for. what do you mean by "clipping" exactly? how do these concepts apply to say tones for metal vs. blues?

 

[Johnny L]

Re: Help On Pedals

Clipping = signal peak meets or exceeds the tolerance of a given component in the chain, generally resulting in a squared-off waveform, an essential part of creating a distorted/overdriven signal.

Metal tones tend to be a lot more saturated, compressed, and squarewave than blues tones, which, due to a generally lesser degree of clipping, will have more loud/soft dynamics, unless you get all Nashville with the compressor on it.