Help Quick on Tone Suck Question! Thank you.

S

SJ318

New member
Hello,
My CryBaby Classic does not suck tone when off. My CryBaby 535Q (a gift) does suck tone when off. A lot. The question is this-I want a Fulltone Deja Vibe Mini pedal. So I plugged into my CryB.Classic, put in off mode, read the output on a multi-meter and it read 7.9, just like my guitar reads. When I plug into my CryB. 535Q and put it in off mode, it also reads 7.9. My ears clearly hear a difference, so lets not get into that, but what I was hoping to do was measure the Fulltone Deja Vibe this way at the store, without hauling my guitar and playing loud back and forth. But clearly the meter does not pick up what my ears perceive.
So given what I KNOW I hear, why does not my digital multimeter read differently between the two pedals? The C.B. Classic has true bypass, and the C.B.535Q takes 2 9volt batteries or an 18 volt Adaptor, which seems to be a tone suck warning, as my old 18 volt Ibenez cs-505 chourus is a tone suck as well, plus my original vox wah sucked tone also, but that only took a 9 volt battery in those days. I gave it away 40 years ago because of this.
Is this a TRUE BYPASS thing, or do meters not tell you that. I hope you understand my question.
Thank you in advance - as always.
Steve Buffington
 
Re: Help Quick on Tone Suck Question! Thank you.

can you tell with your meter the position of your tone control on your guitar?

unlike a volume pedal, a Wah is more of an active tone control

the potentiometer in one wah may have a different value
this would cause it to sound different but maybe not what you have described:
this would leave a parallel load and in the off positon


the cap value may be different from one to another
which would, as with the pot value, change the sound during the sweep
not at the end of the sweep

some pots have an open gap at the end of the sweep
that opens the circuit at the end of the sweep
this is what I believe is happening on Wah pedals

if you would like some more information on the subject of Potentiometers
then look at the secret life of pots
 
Re: Help Quick on Tone Suck Question! Thank you.

SJ318 said:
Hello,
My CryBaby Classic does not suck tone when off. My CryBaby 535Q (a gift) does suck tone when off. A lot. The question is this-I want a Fulltone Deja Vibe Mini pedal. So I plugged into my CryB.Classic, put in off mode, read the output on a multi-meter and it read 7.9, just like my guitar reads. When I plug into my CryB. 535Q and put it in off mode, it also reads 7.9.My ears clearly hear a difference, so lets not get into that, but what I was hoping to do was measure the Fulltone Deja Vibe this way at the store, without hauling my guitar and playing loud back and forth. But clearly the meter does not pick up what my ears perceive.
So given what I KNOW I hear, why does not my digital multimeter read differently between the two pedals? The C.B. Classic has true bypass, and the C.B.535Q takes 2 9volt batteries or an 18 volt Adaptor, which seems to be a tone suck warning, as my old 18 volt Ibenez cs-505 chourus is a tone suck as well, plus my original vox wah sucked tone also, but that only took a 9 volt battery in those days. I gave it away 40 years ago because of this.
Is this a TRUE BYPASS thing, or do meters not tell you that. I hope you understand my question.
Thank you in advance - as always.
Steve Buffington
Click to expand...

A multimeter doesn't care whether a pedal is true bypass or not, it will give you the same reading.

The buffer in the 535Q is crap, plain and simple. If you like it, you should perform the true bypass modification on it. That's what I'd do if it was a gift and I couldn't sell it.

As for the Fulltone, it is true bypass, so unless it's a defective unit it won't color your tone when it's not in the signal path. However, I would still bring my gear to the store and try it with my rig. That's really saying something because I have a large rig and I hate hauling it anywhere, despite the fact that I do it all the time. Univibes and their clones, much like old style fuzzes, are picky about input and output impedances. Bring your rig and put the Fulltone on your board where you would if you owned it. If you don't like how it sounds with your pedals, reposition it until you find out where you like it.

This might sound like a lot of work, and it is. It comes with the territory. Alternatively, you could just buy it from a place that has a lenient return policy.
 
Re: Help Quick on Tone Suck Question! Thank you.

To edwuld-I am reading the end of the output cord with the wah in the off position. so the wah is not engaged. it is there where i made the reading, and the fact that it says the same 7.9 as with just the guitar cord only has me baffled as the sound is very noticeably sucked away when the wah is not engaged, I am rephrasing my question as your answer is a little over my head.
To Agilguy_101, I guess you are saying the meter can't tell me if it is a tone suck or not- correct? It is a true bypass so I will take my rig in as it is a great sounding unit when on. Is it true then, in general, that a true bypass pedal, when not engaged, will not be a tone sucker? Thank you both for replying by the way, I am really unknowledgeable in this area!
Thank you,
Steve
 
Re: Help Quick on Tone Suck Question! Thank you.

I guess you need a digital multimeter that can measure impedance. You measured resistance(7.9 value) i think?

Well in general a series of true bypass pedals connected to each other(more than five) can cause tone suckage, same deal with having too many buffered pedals chained together. I have the MXR 404 wah which is supposed to be true-bypass according to the manual but mine acts differently :( It's all SMD components inside so difficult to mod as well. I could make a true bypass looper pedal & not worry about it but meh I found a workaround by having a buffer pedal last in the chain.

You will need a buffer, a good quality buffer too, somewhere in your signal chain if you are using a lot of cable. I have theoretically 3 true bypass pedals out of which 2 are actually behaving like true bypass pedals & I have a EHX SEM which is a buffered pedal that I put last in the chain. All running straight into the front end of the amp. 15ft cable between the first pedal & guitar. Another 15ft cable between last pedal & amp input. I'm using low capacitance cables as well. Having a buffer pedal there gives me the sound of plugging directly straight to my amp using one of those 15ft cable, so I'm a fan of that.

On a similar note, those patch cables can sometimes be bad & a source of tone suckage. Normally I'd find it hard to believe but reality is funny, my warwick patch cable set had some duds that seemed to suck the high end from the signal, not sure why either.
 
Re: Help Quick on Tone Suck Question! Thank you.

SJ318 said:
To edwuld-I am reading the end of the output cord with the wah in the off position. so the wah is not engaged. it is there where i made the reading, and the fact that it says the same 7.9 as with just the guitar cord only has me baffled as the sound is very noticeably sucked away when the wah is not engaged, I am rephrasing my question as your answer is a little over my head.

Thank you,
Steve
Click to expand...
Steve
if you have a single resistor, say a single coil,
read the resistance as 8 ohms
then you place another resistor, say another single coil
in parallel with the first
the signal path is now divided between the two

if the two coils are the same resistance, 8 ohms
then the signal is divided evenly between the two

if the resistance is not equal then the signal
take the "path of least resistance"
mostly thru the smaller resistance coil
but some still goes thru the larger one
(this is the attraction of the unequal hybrid humbuckers, JB/Custom and Custom/59)



pots are variable resistors

having one in the circuit of sufficient size, 1 meg or so,
means that most of the signal runs round the pot when off
if it is smaller then it sucks some of the signal back thru it
a treble bleed circuit on a volume pot works this way

with a resistor and cap in parallel with the volume pot of a guitar
as the resistance of the vol pot is reduced,
the amount of signal that that bleeds across the cap/resistor changes
and this acts like a tone that add treble back in

I am probably confusing you more

any way the gap in the pot opens the resistance of the pot
and eliminates the pot from the circuit so that the signal
doesn't "bleed" thru
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top