Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

[Phantasmagoria]

Well I bought a Bugera 333xl infinium head off ebay. I specified that I needed one that runs on 230V/50Hz mains/input Voltage. But I was sent one with a 120V-60Hz mains input anyway.

Unfortunately sending it back is out of the question. (would cost $150-200 to ship back internationally..& that's for a $450 head.. ie, not worth the expense or hassle.)

Could anyone tell me what sort of step-down power supply/converter (Specs) I would need to run this thing from my 230v - 50Hz wall outlet? (It's a 120 watt head)

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated....

Especially since my ebay 'buyer protection' runs out in a day or two and I'd really like to be able to check the head out (to see if it works..lol) before that..

 

[Dr. Vegetable]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

Bummer...

You can get a power converter/conditioner that will do the job, but one that will handle the power to run that amp will set you back a little. It's never going to be a convenient option for you, though. There's some basic information about them here:

http://www.110220volts.com/Power/Voltage+Converters.html

I suppose you could also look to ebay for help. You could claim "item not as described" and see if the seller will pay return shipping. If he won't work with you, you may be able to get a full refund from ebay. It sucks to have to do that, but it sounds like the seller screwed up and left you with an unusable piece of gear.

Good luck!

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

Probably not easy to find but older televisions had large transformers in them [ before switchmode PSs became popular ]. They usuall have a secondary tap around 120 v. I used one for years to run a printer that came from the USA. I've still got it here and it runs a turntable with 110v. motor in it. It delivers more than enough ampage for the previuosly mentioned devices but old TVs draw about the same as a guitar amp and it would most likely run one quite amply. It came out of a Rank TV.

 

[Dr. Vegetable]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

Heh... A turntable is one piece of equipment I would expect is affected by the difference between 50Hz and 60Hz. Have you made heroic adjustments to the speed, or does all your music play slow/low? A variac would also do the trick.

Fortunately, a tube amp probably won't care too much about 50 vs. 60 Hz.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

Heh... A turntable is one piece of equipment I would expect is affected by the difference between 50Hz and 60Hz. Have you made heroic adjustments to the speed, or does all your music play slow/low? A variac would also do the trick.

Fortunately, a tube amp probably won't care too much about 50 vs. 60 Hz.

I cant find my stoboscope disc to check it but it appears there's no problem.

Records are notorius for pitch changes from track to track anyway. They used to speed things up so they could fit all the tracks on the record.

One of the better parts of digital reproduction is that the pitch does not change unless done intentionally. You can pick up a guitar tuned to standard pitch and it will be in tune to the disc recording.
Back in the " old days " of Vinyl, if you wanted to play along you'd quite often have to change your tuning from track to track, be it ever so slightly.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

Probably not easy to find but older televisions had large transformers in them [ before switchmode PSs became popular ]. They usuall have a secondary tap around 120 v. I used one for years to run a printer that came from the USA. I've still got it here and it runs a turntable with 110v. motor in it. It delivers more than enough ampage for the previuosly mentioned devices but old TVs draw about the same as a guitar amp and it would most likely run one quite amply. It came out of a Rank TV.

Thanks, I'm just wondering whether that's the case with the transformer in this amp too. The seller told me that the input voltage was switchable, (I don't see a switch), but there's a sticker (see pic) that says 120V - 60Hz. The 230V-50Hz input models have the same stickers too. Could it be that it's a dual input voltage transformer & that there's an internal switch/tap?

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

Heh... A turntable is one piece of equipment I would expect is affected by the difference between 50Hz and 60Hz. Have you made heroic adjustments to the speed, or does all your music play slow/low? A variac would also do the trick.

Fortunately, a tube amp probably won't care too much about 50 vs. 60 Hz.

Thanks..that's ^ actually what's been worrying me...

I don't really mind the added expense of a step down transformer ...but his amp has an 'Auto-Biasing' system for the tubes & I was wondering whether the difference in frequency (60-50Hz) would throw the auto-biasing circuits off?

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

Thanks, I'm just wondering whether that's the case with the transformer in this amp too. The seller told me that the input voltage was switchable, (I don't see a switch), but there's a sticker (see pic) that says 120V - 60Hz. The 230V-50Hz input models have the same stickers too. Could it be that it's a dual input voltage transformer & that there's an internal switch/tap?

View attachment 39244

There may be another tap. Only way you'll know is look in there. If there isn't, it's most likely 110V only. I see it says it draws 200 watts. Most of the older tv's [24-26"] draw 230 - 270 watts.

I see its fuse is rated at 250V.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

If you can figure what brand and model transformer is in it, you may be able to look up its specs online and see whether it has a 230/250 vot tap on the primary side.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

I could look around for old TV transformers like you describe..not sure if they're easy to to come by though...

What sort of transformer rating would I be looking at?

Would something like this do?

http://www.bombayelectronics.com/ST_750_Voltage_Transformer_p/st750.htm

I've written to Bugera support and told them about the problem...if they get back, maybe I can ask them about the transformer (whether it's got a 230V tap)...

 

[zzmoore]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

Maybe I missed it..... Why do YOU have to pay to return THEIR mistake.?
50Hz can be real hard on a PT that was really intended for 60.
A step down will not do anything for THAT problem.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

Yeah, all returns are at the buyers cost. I might be reimbursed if I open/win a case, but to be honest, when I bought this thing the seller was pretty decent in the sense that he gave me a free upgrade (the 333"XL" version with additional boost and presence controls over the listed "333" standard model) also the shipping price for the base "333" model was literally half the shipping price he had listed for the 333XL model ..& when I pointed that out to him (they're the same weight/size model basically, just that the 'XL' version has a few more buttons/an extra knob) he agreed to ship it to me for the 333's shipping price. Lastly, he was already selling these amps for about $100 less than everyone else...

So, given that the guy was pretty decent (He said "he was told" that the amp's input voltage was switchable...I think it was a genuine mistake) ...I'd rather work 'around' this problem than be aggressive about it. He said he'd get in touch with Bugera and let me know what the best thing to do would be....

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

There may be another tap. Only way you'll know is look in there.

I see its fuse is rated at 250V.

Does that suggest that it might be the same transformer they're using (tapped for 120V-230V) in both versions (US & UK)? The Fuse rating seems pretty high for 120V otherwise..

 

[zzmoore]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

You would be hard pressed to find a fuse rated for 120 Volts.
250 covers the world, so THAT is the standard.
Pull the chassis and tell us what you see on the PT.
best

 

[Dr. Vegetable]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

So, given that the guy was pretty decent (He said "he was told" that the amp's input voltage was switchable...I think it was a genuine mistake) ...I'd rather work 'around' this problem than be aggressive about it.

Very cool of you! May kharma bless you with righteous tone.

All my 120V equipment calls for 250V fuses.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

You would be hard pressed to find a fuse rated for 120 Volts.
250 covers the world, so THAT is the standard.
Pull the chassis and tell us what you see on the PT.
best

Well I'll be.
Even if there is a 230 volt tap, the transformer would be wound for 60 hz I'm presuming which still leaves you with the Hz issue.
Apart from swapping the PT out for a 230V 50 Hz one, there doesn't seem to be a lot of practical solutions, or take the chance on running it on a 50 Hz supply and the PT getting a bit hotter.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

If you can switch it internally to run off 230V, you might also have to down-grade the mains fuse. An amp using 200W from the AC line will do it with less current from 230V than it will with 115V, so it usually takes a fuse of half the current rating for the same protection as the fuse specified for 115V operation.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

@ GoldenVulure: Yeah... the manual says the US version is 120V~60Hz while the other 'international versions' seem to accept ("X" voltage +) 50/60HZ. So my guess is this will be wound for 60Hz only/ strictly for the US market.


TAD (The tube amp doctor) is selling their own branded (Generic OEM) 500 VA (watt?) Step-Down transformer which they say will run everything from 100 watt Marshalls to Dual & Triple Recto's..so I guess a 500 watt converter is what will do the trick.

I found one (for about 50.00 USD or so) rated for 500 watts that uses a torroidial transformer locally here http://www.mdrelectronics.com/ProductDisplay.asp?PID=4798.. (reccommended for AV equpment etc) ..I guess a torroidial one will be better/quieter?

If you can switch it internally to run off 230V, you might also have to down-grade the mains fuse. An amp using 200W from the AC line will do it with less current from 230V than it will with 115V, so it usually takes a fuse of half the current rating for the same protection as the fuse specified for 115V operation.

The Bugera support guy who just got back to me on this made no mention of the transformer being switchable/tappable for 230V or whatever. He did however say that there should be no problem if I used a step down transformer. He said the he 60Hz-50Hz frequency difference would'nt adversly affect either the transformer or the auto-bias circuit..so that's a relief.

I think the fuse value will remain the same if I use a step down tranny, so hopefully that won't be an issue.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

I think the fuse value will remain the same if I use a step down tranny, so hopefully that won't be an issue.

That is correct.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Help requested with a mains Power Supply problem..

@ GoldenVulure: Yeah... the manual says the US version is 120V~60Hz while the other 'international versions' seem to accept ("X" voltage +) 50/60HZ. So my guess is this will be wound for 60Hz only/ strictly for the US market.


TAD (The tube amp doctor) is selling their own branded (Generic OEM) 500 VA (watt?) Step-Down transformer which they say will run everything from 100 watt Marshalls to Dual & Triple Recto's..so I guess a 500 watt converter is what will do the trick.

I found one (for about 50.00 USD or so) rated for 500 watts that uses a torroidial transformer locally here http://www.mdrelectronics.com/ProductDisplay.asp?PID=4798.. (reccommended for AV equpment etc) ..I guess a torroidial one will be better/quieter?






The Bugera support guy who just got back to me on this made no mention of the transformer being switchable/tappable for 230V or whatever. He did however say that there should be no problem if I used a step down transformer. He said the he 60Hz-50Hz frequency difference would'nt adversly affect either the transformer or the auto-bias circuit..so that's a relief.

I think the fuse value will remain the same if I use a step down tranny, so hopefully that won't be an issue.

That's good news from the Bugera people, and the step down transformer is a reasonable price.