Help very confused with millivolts?

[roadstar II]

after listening to WILDSTARS clips i am confused about the output of different pups?
like the virtual hot paf is listed at 260mv and the air zone is at 323mv's
well the air zone did not sound to me all that much hotter than the V hot paf?
the regular v paf is at 230mv's
will this one still be "hot enough" to have more drive than a 59 or gibson 57 classic( i own both of these and love the tone but they dont have enough push)
i never thought that chosing a pup would be this much crap? :smack:

 

[roadstar II]

Re: Help very confused with millivolts?

anyone? :gurmpy: :laugh2:

 

[papersoul]

Re: Help very confused with millivolts?

Apparently Millivolts are a much better way to gauge a pickups output than resistance. Even Henries are better.

 

[Artie]

Re: Help very confused with millivolts?

Apparently Millivolts are a much better way to gauge a pickups output than resistance. Even Henries are better.

I somewhat disagree, but that doesn't mean you're wrong.

The problem with any electrical parameter is, it won't tell you how the pup truly sounds. The problem with millivolts is, there are so many variables in its measurement. DC resistance will always be the same, and anyone can measure it with a $3 meter. (I know, there can be slight differences given temperture change.)

If I know the DC resistance, and I know the magnet, I have a pretty good ballpark idea of the output, and to a lessor degree, the frequency curve.

Just my 2-cents worth.

Artie

 

[jalguitarman]

Re: Help very confused with millivolts?

Ok artie i have a question for you on this one. Dimarzio has the d-sonic and the steves special. Now each has a different d.c. resitance yet they have the same output in millivolts. Please explain as i don't have the answer to this and don't get it.

 

[ranalli]

Re: Help very confused with millivolts?

Ok artie i have a question for you on this one. Dimarzio has the d-sonic and the steves special. Now each has a different d.c. resitance yet they have the same output in millivolts. Please explain as i don't have the answer to this and don't get it.

That's because DC Resistance isn't an output indicator. You have two pickups with the same DC Resistance have wildly different outputs or mV values. And like in the case you mentioned....two pickups with the same output(mV) giving different DC Resistances.

The magnet size, type, configuration and other pickup parameters all play a role in final output.

 

[jalguitarman]

Re: Help very confused with millivolts?

That's because DC Resistance isn't an output indicator. You have two pickups with the same DC Resistance have wildly different outputs or mV values. And like in the case you mentioned....two pickups with the same output(mV) giving different DC Resistances.

The magnet size, type, configuration and other pickup parameters all play a role in final output.

This makes sense. I really did think at one time that d.c. resistance mesured output and then when i went on the dimarzio site and this made me think that it might not be, but it seems as some people in this forum speak of it as if it was an output mesurement. Thanks ranalli that clears it up. So what does d.c. resistance mesure exactly? anyone?

 

[Artie]

Re: Help very confused with millivolts?

Part of what makes it confusing is that it can be an indicator of output, but its not a hard and fast rule. You'ld be pretty safe to assume that a 16k pup will be hotter than a 7k pup. But a 12k A5 compared to a 8.5k ceramic . . . gets to be a gray area.

Artie

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Help very confused with millivolts?

Resistance depends on the wire (and the insulation). The 42 gauge wire has about 15% more resistance than the same coil of 43 gauge wire, against 44 gauge wire it is about 30%. For some good explanations on influences of sound check out the site of sk guitar specialties. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/skgs/sk/pickup_factors.htm

 

[Jester700]

Re: Help very confused with millivolts?

Hamerfan,
You sure? The general rule is, the BIGGER the wire (lower gauge #) the LOWER the resistance for a given length. So the same coil (in terms of wire turns) should have LOWER resistance with 42 than with 43 or 44.

 

[tone4days]

Re: Help very confused with millivolts?

you are leaving out 'number of winds' in your assessment .. you can get more winds of a thinner gauge wire around the bobbin ... the number of winds effects the DC resistance quite a bit ...

DC resistance strikes me as a nearly useless metric for gauging ultimate sonic properties of a pickup for the very simple reason that the only time a pickup is offering DC resistance is when it is silent

artietoo, as per usual, summarized the point nicely above

i REALLY do not know how they come up with a voltage rating for a pickup ... how do they control for frequency? for picking intensity? for scale length?

i am an electrical engineer by education and experience .. the rational, logical, analytical part of my brain would LOVE for pickup performance to be very well quantified by operating parameters ... but they never will be .. and the musicina part of my brain is thrilled by that reality .. it's in the ears fellas ...

and no pickup, no matter HOW hot the output, can turn a 50 watt amp into a 100 watt amp ... they DO make pedals for boosting and drive, yunno

cheers
t4d

 

[JacksonMIA]

Re: Help very confused with millivolts?

you are leaving out 'number of winds' in your assessment .. you can get more winds of a thinner gauge wire around the bobbin ... the number of winds effects the DC resistance quite a bit ...

DC resistance strikes me as a nearly useless metric for gauging ultimate sonic properties of a pickup for the very simple reason that the only time a pickup is offering DC resistance is when it is silent

artietoo, as per usual, summarized the point nicely above

i REALLY do not know how they come up with a voltage rating for a pickup ... how do they control for frequency? for picking intensity? for scale length?

i am an electrical engineer by education and experience .. the rational, logical, analytical part of my brain would LOVE for pickup performance to be very well quantified by operating parameters ... but they never will be .. and the musicina part of my brain is thrilled by that reality .. it's in the ears fellas ...

and no pickup, no matter HOW hot the output, can turn a 50 watt amp into a 100 watt amp ... they DO make pedals for boosting and drive, yunno

cheers
t4d

I was going to say a little bit about it, but you took care of it more completely than I would have. Good post.

 

[jalguitarman]

Re: Help very confused with millivolts?

Part of what makes it confusing is that it can be an indicator of output, but its not a hard and fast rule. You'ld be pretty safe to assume that a 16k pup will be hotter than a 7k pup. But a 12k A5 compared to a 8.5k ceramic . . . gets to be a gray area.

Artie

This is an interesting item for discussion. Take the dimarzio YJM stack. If you look at the d.c resistance it is 23.0 or in the ballpark. Now to look at that number you would think it would be super hot but, its puts out less than a normal single coil. Although i think i would tend to agree on the a5 vs ceramic point with the given numbers. :cool3:

 

[Gila_Crisis]

Re: Help very confused with millivolts?

but what give a hotter output, A5 or ceramic???

 

[ranalli]

Re: Help very confused with millivolts?

but what give a hotter output, A5 or ceramic???

IF the magnets are the same size, ceramic.....but magnets come in different shapes and sizes.

 

[shreder75]

Re: Help very confused with millivolts?

I was told by SD customer service (because I was tryin' to compare SD's to Dimarzios in terms of output) that milivolts aren't a good way to judge because it depends on 'how hard you hit the strings'..his words....

 

[ranalli]

Re: Help very confused with millivolts?

I was told by SD customer service (because I was tryin' to compare SD's to Dimarzios in terms of output) that milivolts aren't a good way to judge because it depends on 'how hard you hit the strings'..his words....

mV are a good way to judge if the tests were consistent and we're assuming Dimarzio did this when testing their pickups. However, unless another manufacturer did their tests exactly as Dimarzio did then their mV values would be good within their own product line for comparison but not compared to Dimarzio.


I don't think you'll ever see a company vs company direct comparison of mV values unless some independent party did the same test for every pickup.

However, with the Dimarzios, having that value is extremely helpful to me and I can usually nail the pickup I want from them every time as their numbers are really accurate I find.

 

[shreder75]

Re: Help very confused with millivolts?

mV are a good way to judge if the tests were consistent and we're assuming Dimarzio did this when testing their pickups. However, unless another manufacturer did their tests exactly as Dimarzio did then their mV values would be good within their own product line for comparison but not compared to Dimarzio.


I don't think you'll ever see a company vs company direct comparison of mV values unless some independent party did the same test for every pickup.

However, with the Dimarzios, having that value is extremely helpful to me and I can usually nail the pickup I want from them every time as their numbers are really accurate I find.

yep, I agree....not sayin' that it wasn't useful to compare dimarzios with other dimarzio's..you're totally correct..comparing them to SD's like you said is another story =)