Help with 335 pickups

[Al Nico V]

The pickup selector guide doesn't provide options for semi-acoustic/maple body guitars (335). It's different from mahogany body humbucker guitars (LP, SG etc). On the other hand the pickup selector guide doesn't provide options for pots/wiring, amp/cab, strings, pick/fingerstyle, pedalboard Y/N, so you're on your own anyway...or, why not ask the user group!

Lately I've been experimenting with magnet swapping and the difference is HUGE. It makes such a difference one is tempted to conclude it's all about the magnets. Long, short, polished, rough cast, gauss level etc; all different flavors. You know the common guide to magnets; A2 is like this, A5 is like that bla, bla. It's misleading because two magnets of the same Alnico type could be individually very different. Therefore, although educational, magnet swapping tends to get a bit time consuming.

Many people like Classic '57s in a 335. Many people also have a hard time getting a decent Jazz tone from a 335, it's all rock 'n roll. -Where's the famous versatility? Well, of course it depends on what we mean by Jazz, Rock, clean, distortion and what kind of versatility we expect, right;

My quest is to go from clean archtop Jazz to cutting country licks and singing LP-lead with the flick of a switch and turn of a guitar volume knob. And have all variants of those great in-between tones that is part of the 335 signature. Impossible? Am I asking too much? Maybe I am. The 335 is neither an archtop, nor an LP, still it should be able to get close enough to deserve to be dubbed the most versatile guitar, don't you think?

Short version: The Classic '57 neck pickup sucks big time for clean Jazz, all mud, but is capable of some really nice in-between tones, preferably with distortion. When replacing or modifying the neck pickup, it should ideally be paired with a bridge pickup that is a perfect match for blending, but that also can hold its own doing lead (country style or singing sustain). The Classic '57 bridge is OK, maybe output could be a tad higher and with some more clarity, attitude and authority.

-What do you say?

 

[gsammo79]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

The pickup selector guide doesn't provide options for semi-acoustic/maple body guitars (335). It's different from mahogany body humbucker guitars (LP, SG etc). On the other hand the pickup selector guide doesn't provide options for pots/wiring, amp/cab, strings, pick/fingerstyle, pedalboard Y/N, so you're on your own anyway...or, why not ask the user group!

Lately I've been experimenting with magnet swapping and the difference is HUGE. It makes such a difference one is tempted to conclude it's all about the magnets. Long, short, polished, rough cast, gauss level etc; all different flavors. You know the common guide to magnets; A2 is like this, A5 is like that bla, bla. It's misleading because two magnets of the same Alnico type could be individually very different. Therefore, although educational, magnet swapping tends to get a bit time consuming.

Many people like Classic '57s in a 335. Many people also have a hard time getting a decent Jazz tone from a 335, it's all rock 'n roll. -Where's the famous versatility? Well, of course it depends on what we mean by Jazz, Rock, clean, distortion and what kind of versatility we expect, right;

My quest is to go from clean archtop Jazz to cutting country licks and singing LP-lead with the flick of a switch and turn of a guitar volume knob. And have all variants of those great in-between tones that is part of the 335 signature. Impossible? Am I asking too much? Maybe I am. The 335 is neither an archtop, nor an LP, still it should be able to get close enough to deserve to be dubbed the most versatile guitar, don't you think?

Short version: The Classic '57 neck pickup sucks big time for clean Jazz, all mud, but is capable of some really nice in-between tones, preferably with distortion. When replacing or modifying the neck pickup, it should ideally be paired with a bridge pickup that is a perfect match for blending, but that also can hold its own doing lead (country style or singing sustain). The Classic '57 bridge is OK, maybe output could be a tad higher and with some more clarity, attitude and authority.

-What do you say?

A 57 classic model that has more output and balls is the Super 57 model Gibson made briefly. It may be hard to find (ebay, reverb) but that pickup sounds great, imo. As far as getting a hunbucker to cover a broad range of genres the Super 57 may, or may not, be ideal but it is a 57 classic with *more*

 

[BluesIsBlood12]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

I have no idea why people on other forums love 57s so much. I didn't have them in a 335, but I did not like them at all. They seriously lack clarity. Seths are far superior to me, and if I got another 335 that's probably what I'd put in. But lets talk about what I actually have tried.

I've got an Epi and a Gibson, which feel different but can sound surprisingly close, after about $500-$600 of upgrades to the Epi. The Gibson came used with Antiquities installed, and I can't imagine changing them. It can do clean, blues, rock, and semi-heavy tones with no problem. Basically the versatility that a 335 is known for. I think Seths could potentially be slightly better, but it's not worth the trouble to swap them.

For the Epi, the first upgrade I put in was a set of 59s. They were decent, but with the boomy-ness that people often complain about. When I got into magnet swapping I tried A4s and loved them. It's hard to describe, but there's a 3D quality to chords that I loved. I pretty much universally switch A5 pickups to A4s now. Then on a whim I tried some A2s. That was good as well, though different as you would expect. They were actually very similar to the much more expensive Ants in my Gibson. In a band mix it would take a pretty refined ear to tell them apart. I didn't need 2 guitars that sound that similar though, so the A4s went back in.

My recommendation is that if you don't mind the price then Ants or Seths are pretty much perfect for a 335. If cost is an issue then 59s with A2s will also do the job quite well.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

I'd say put a set of Antiquities in there, and get back to playing. They really are a great choice for semi-hollows. I have a set in my Eastman and they can do everything short of high preamp gain metal.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

I'm a fan of '59s (if you want a slightly scooped sound), or Seths (if you want a middier sound) in a 335, and find both pickups quite versatile.

 

[philthis]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

have you thought of going with a p90? they make them in alnico 5 for a bigger bottom end at low volume or alnico 2 for sweet highs and more balance at high volume. They make them in humbucker size so you can slip them in. Im dealing with a duel humbucker strat. I too want the clean tones but find most humbuckers muddy in the neck especially at high volume. with a single speaker its better but it gets worse with more speakers because it adds bass. A friend suggested a fat cat in the neck. Ime gunna try it. I like to play with a 2x12 cab. I practice in my basement but play loud out. Im hoping the fatcat in the neck with the A2 mag with be the answer. It will not have as much bass at low volume as an A5 mag so that is the trade off. I will have to eq my amp and adjust the resonance control at low practice volume.

 

[Artie]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

I'm a fan of '59s.

59's often don't get the love they deserve. Maybe because people are always looking for something "new". I like to keep an axe, with 59's in it, around all the time.

 

[MichYank]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

My 335 has a set of APH1's and it does jazz to country quite well. I also have a set of 59's with an A2 in the neck and a UOA5 in the bridge in my Les Paul, another great set that can give you that smooth jazz vibe.

 

[Al Nico V]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

Thanks all

I like an A5 magnet in the neck for crisp articulation, maybe an A4 would be nice.

And yes I like P90s and Fender single coils too, but not in this guitar. My best sounding guitars got A5 magnets in the neck, but they are also different guitar models. Coils and output probably have something to do with it as well.

The '59 neck spec makes sense. -How does it compare to the Jazz neck? looks similar...

And what about the bridge PU? I think an A2 bridge is a good match with the 335 in general but it must balance the neck...

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

I run a '59 neck (A5) and Seth bridge (A2) in my Epi Dot . . . mostly because I think the seth sounds better distorted and the '59 better clean. Tonally they match pretty well. The '59 is maybe a hair louder than the Seth. I usually roll the volume back a tad for the neck and the tone back slightly for the bridge.

 

[chadd]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

Seths and Ants are the obvious choices, and for very good reason. Saturday Night Special might also be worth considering for you. I have a set in my PRS Semi Hollow single cut and while they don't give me exactly what I want, they could very well do what you want.

 

[gsammo79]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

Not sure how much more output youre looking for from your '57s, but an antiquity set isn't gonna fix that problem. They're very good pickups, but not my first option if *more* output is what I was after.

 

[Al Nico V]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

I run a '59 neck (A5) and Seth bridge (A2) in my Epi Dot . . . mostly because I think the seth sounds better distorted and the '59 better clean. Tonally they match pretty well. The '59 is maybe a hair louder than the Seth. I usually roll the volume back a tad for the neck and the tone back slightly for the bridge.

Yep, that's the way I would typically set the controls and I will probably go for a similar pickup pairing.
A '59 makes sense in the neck position(or a Jazz perhaps, I don't understand the difference).
The Seth bridge sound clip with gain was OK for whatever it's worth.

Not sure how much more output youre looking for from your '57s, but an antiquity set isn't gonna fix that problem. They're very good pickups, but not my first option if *more* output is what I was after.

Yes, I would like a bit *more* from the bridge. -How does the Super '57 compare to the Classic Plus (that people don't seem to care much about)?

The 335 maple block shifts the frequency response towards upper mids (compared to the average mahogany body), so the Classic '57 bridge gets bright and cutting as one would expect, but still lacks presence and texture. A bit more of those qualities would be nice, to be controlled by the guitar tone and volume controls. Of course, all this is also amp dependent and pickup output is key. The combination of high output and a good, bright clean tone with guitar volume rolled back, seems to be a bit of a challenge. Also there has to be some air between the pickup and the strings, or there's notable string warble, so when pickup output is too low, tone gets lame...

When you guys says "Ants", which Antiquities are you referring to? There are A2-Ants and A5-Ants. I understand they've got degaussed magnets for less output, and as a result better clarity. Maybe in the neck, but it's not what I'm looking for in the bridge position.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

The Antiquity I suggested has A2 mags. I don't get too hung up on magnets, though, as they don't define every single thing about the sound. They are clean and clear and wide open, so they are the perfect choice in a 335, especially if your style depends on touch sensitivity.

 

[gsammo79]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

Yep, that's the way I would typically set the controls and I will probably go for a similar pickup pairing.
A '59 makes sense in the neck position(or a Jazz perhaps, I don't understand the difference).
The Seth bridge sound clip with gain was OK for whatever it's worth.




Yes, I would like a bit *more* from the bridge. -How does the Super '57 compare to the Classic Plus (that people don't seem to care much about)?

The 335 maple block shifts the frequency response towards upper mids (compared to the average mahogany body), so the Classic '57 bridge gets bright and cutting as one would expect, but still lacks presence and texture. A bit more of those qualities would be nice, to be controlled by the guitar tone and volume controls. Of course, all this is also amp dependent and pickup output is key. The combination of high output and a good, bright clean tone with guitar volume rolled back, seems to be a bit of a challenge. Also there has to be some air between the pickup and the strings, or there's notable string warble, so when pickup output is too low, tone gets lame...

When you guys says "Ants", which Antiquities are you referring to? There are A2-Ants and A5-Ants. I understand they've got degaussed magnets for less output, and as a result better clarity. Maybe in the neck, but it's not what I'm looking for in the bridge position.

The Super 57 has more output than the Classic +. Best way i can describe it is a pickup with more life to it. A perfect output bump from the 57+. I'd have the Super 57 in a second guitar if I had another axe, honestly.

If you're finding the 57 classic bright in your guitar then I would write the S57 off. It will likely have the same issue the 57C has

 

[Al Nico V]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

have you thought of going with a p90? they make them in alnico 5 for a bigger bottom end at low volume or alnico 2 for sweet highs and more balance at high volume. They make them in humbucker size so you can slip them in. Im dealing with a duel humbucker strat. I too want the clean tones but find most humbuckers muddy in the neck especially at high volume. with a single speaker its better but it gets worse with more speakers because it adds bass. A friend suggested a fat cat in the neck. Ime gunna try it. I like to play with a 2x12 cab. I practice in my basement but play loud out. Im hoping the fatcat in the neck with the A2 mag with be the answer. It will not have as much bass at low volume as an A5 mag so that is the trade off. I will have to eq my amp and adjust the resonance control at low practice volume.

Good input, you're right there's a volume impact. I usually do the Jazz stuff at low to moderate output using middy tweed amps, and for that purpose A5 is great. But when playing loud and clean, A2 may be the better option. I do play a hollowbody with P-90s (A5), but my 335 shall be the jack of all trades. I also have a 2x12 cab, but I think it sounds best with my Strat. Me too like a single speaker with buckers.

 

[Al Nico V]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

The Antiquity I suggested has A2 mags. I don't get too hung up on magnets, though, as they don't define every single thing about the sound. They are clean and clear and wide open, so they are the perfect choice in a 335, especially if your style depends on touch sensitivity.

Thanks, I hear you

I've got to ask; -Are you going for a somewhat hollow sound that you think complement the 335? That's not what I have in mind. It's a pain to replace pickups and electronics in a 335, therefore I like to do the research before I go.

Humbucker magnets may not define everything, but they do define a lot. The coils and the pairing of coils (balanced or unbalanced) obviously also play a part as well as the resulting output. Yes, touch sensitivity is important, but also in this regard there are several parameters in play, like the frequency response of the pickup, the amp and amp settings etc. I suppose one important contributor to touch sensitivity in general would be magnet strength.

I'm trying to achieve some versatility here and have the neck set up for classic Jazz and the bridge for saturated lead. I don't know if I can get there while maintaining useful in-between tones, but it's worth a try...

On a side note: As far as I know, most original 335s from '59 and throughout the '60s got A5 magnets in both positions and the pickups often got unbalanced coils. Many legendary Jazz guitars tones was produced with P-90 pickups and most of them got A5 magnets.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

I don't know if you can put 'the PAF sound' on magnet type alone...it really is a combination of factors for the end result. I actually thing lower power + unpotted has more to do with the sound and 'feel' than magnet type. Antiquities are snappy and open, and touch sensitive because they are unpotted.

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

My heritage 335 has a Seth set. I could not be happier!

B

 

[Aceman]

Re: Help with 335 pickups

Dr. B - long time no see! Hard to hate on Seth's in a 335, especially if it is good wood.