Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

evh_slash

evh_slash

New member
I had a replacement neck (with stainless steel Jumbo frets) made for my Ibanez RG & I had a issues with notes choking out & fret buzz so l took it to my Luthier to have all the frets completely Re-Crowned, Levelled and Polished as the original fretwork by the builder was rushed/poor.

The frets look much better now & the neck plays a lot better BUT I'm still getting a lot of fret noise particularly on the G and B strings between the 5th fret and the 12th fret . Its not buzz per se but just this horrible 'chink chink' metallic slapping sound that really comes out the amp when I pick the notes hard or even moderately.

Any ideas on why this is happening & any tips on how to eradicate it without messing with the action & making the guitar uncomfortable to play on ?? I love the action on all my guitars to be between 1.2 - 1.6 mm on the treble side depending on the guitar but this is the only one with this much noise !!

The action is 'low' but not stupidly low ( Approx 1.5 - 1.75mm ish at the 12th fret treble side) . Strings are gauge 9-46 in E flat.

Does it sound like a high fret somewhere or a potential relief/truss rod issue? It's driving me crazy .

Check this clip out:
https://soundcloud.com/mbstudiopre/fret-slap-1
 
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Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

Maybe an issue of of backbow? Do you know how to measure relief? Some numbers would help... Also, are you sure that the fretjob this time is spot on? Not saying your luthier messed up, but everyone makes mistakes and sometimes one tends to skip the most obvious possibilities when troubleshooting... What about the saddles/string radius? Do they follow the the fingerboard radius? Are you sure it's the frets? Right now I cannot listen to the sound sample, but a few weeks back I started to hear a terrible rattling while playing one of my guitars. I started to panic thinking about the most horrible possibilities, but then I noticed that the strab button's screw on the upper horn of the body got loose and as the body vibrated as I was playing it was making the rattling sound... Not saying your issue is the same, it's just example to demonstrate that sometimes it help to observe the problem with a bit wider perspective rather than zooming in.

Also, some patience will help the issue, since in no time way more knowledgeable guys than I am will chime in to help you out. :)
 
Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

Backbow, High frets, Action too low, flat fret tops. Those are my best guesses as to the cause.
 
Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

sounds like fretbuzz to me. check the neck relief (should be 0.25mm, approximately), and then dial in the action. what you've got seems to be fine. Could be lower if the frets allow it (which they don't right now...).

after that, see if the string clears those buzzy frets properly. just press down the string 1 fret below the buzzing culprit, see if the string clears. pick the string, check again. if not, cry havoc, let slip the dogs of war and tear your luthier a new one cause he didn't level them correctly.
 
Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

I'll chime in.... The frets are not seated completely in the slots.
 
Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

Managed to take a listen... First off, would be great to hear it clean. Separate, long notes picked individually. Or even the plain acoustic sound. If it doesn't buzz that way, the fretwork is fine in my opinion. Also, would you mind trying a lighter/sharper/fresher pick? The only time my single note runs sounded similar was when I was convinced that the thicker the pick the better I can play. When the pick got worn, ther thick rounded edges prodced a similar harmonic-like "chirping" sound.
 
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Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

Very slight fret buzz amplified by the stainless steel frets. Frets need to be rechecked by the luthier who did the job, especially between 5 and 12.

Also consider that with very light gauge strings (9 - 46) and Eb tuning, you are way more prone to get fret buzz/slap especially when picking hard.

I agree that it would have been much better to give us a sound clip that wasn't already buzzy with distortion. To accurately diagnose a problem with frets, you must do it not only clean, but even unamplified to get most accuracy.
 
Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

"Your action should be high enough that you can fit your sex organ between the string and the frets" - Mattias IA Eklundh
 
Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

I'll just say that after my fret levels, I can play any action I want with zero buzz anywhere. So it could be a poor level or it's possible that there's too much bow but I doubt it.
 
Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

My first thought is a back bow, but usually the luthier would have diagnosed that as the initial problem. I'd say if it still buzzes when you get your guitar back, the luthier didn't do his/her job correctly if that is what they were trying to eliminate.
 
Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

Mincer said:
My first thought is a back bow, but usually the luthier would have diagnosed that as the initial problem. I'd say if it still buzzes when you get your guitar back, the luthier didn't do his/her job correctly if that is what they were trying to eliminate.
Click to expand...

Its weird because I went to see him and he double checked and went over everything again for me at no charge, he even then demonstrated to me in person that the frets were all leveled correctly . Now im confused ! It sounds like a subtle harmonic/pinch that comes out when picking the G/B string hard at certain frets...
 
Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

Clint 55 said:
I'll just say that after my fret levels, I can play any action I want with zero buzz anywhere. So it could be a poor level or it's possible that there's too much bow but I doubt it.
Click to expand...

Is there a specific way one must level the frets when seeking to obtain buzz-free ultra low action or is it just a standard fret level job ??
 
Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

It's quite specific, but at the same time it should be standard I believe: dead-straight neck and absolutely perfectly level frets, radius matching that of the fingerboard/nut/bridge. But if you know how to use a fret rocker, you can go over even the strung up guitar at the spots where you feel the buzzing. When you're using the rocker, you're only inspecting 3 frets at a time, so the effect of the relef should be negligible and you might be able to pinpoint the guilty spot. Not necessarily a whole fret, but just a spot. Also, how are your individual string actions? Are you sure that those G and B strings are not closer to the board than they should be? Then again, we only heard the problem with heavy distortion and delay, so...
 
Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

nexion218 said:
It's quite specific, but at the same time it should be standard I believe: dead-straight neck and absolutely perfectly level frets, radius matching that of the fingerboard/nut/bridge. But if you know how to use a fret rocker, you can go over even the strung up guitar at the spots where you feel the buzzing. When you're using the rocker, you're only inspecting 3 frets at a time, so the effect of the relef should be negligible and you might be able to pinpoint the guilty spot. Not necessarily a whole fret, but just a spot. Also, how are your individual string actions? Are you sure that those G and B strings are not closer to the board than they should be? Then again, we only heard the problem with heavy distortion and delay, so...
Click to expand...

I will test it again today & record another clip !! I chose to record distorted before because I felt it clearly demonstrated the noise. Stay posted !

The guitar neck is just under 16" radius (closer to 15.6 ish) and the bridge is radiused at bang on 16" (Ibanez Lo Pro edge) .
 
Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

I might be straying outside the territory of my knowledge here, but the rest of the folks will surely correct me if I'm wrong, so here goes my 2 cents:

As the neck has a smaller radius and consequently bigger curvature, I'd image that this is what gets your G and B strings closer to the board and thus producing the effect you observe. If you align a curve with a 16" radius and one with a 15,6" radius, it's easy to see that as you move away from center (towards the edge of your fingerboard) the gap between the two becomes bigger. As you try to minimize the gap at the edges (=lower the action), you're not only moving the ends of the curve (=outside strings), but the whole of it (=all strings). This could result in comfortable action on the outside ( high and low E), but at the same time move the "inner strings" dangerously close to the frets. So far so good, but this should result in the D and G strings misbehaving... if it wasn't for the slope of the whole bridge! The action is usually higher on the bass side then the treble side, whish creates a slight slope and in my mind mind that could be the reason why the strings closest to the frets are G and B. Talk about a hyperactive imagination! :D

Also, to the rest of the gang: please be easy on me if I've managed to come up with utter nonsense! :)
 
Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

evh_slash said:
Is there a specific way one must level the frets when seeking to obtain buzz-free ultra low action or is it just a standard fret level job ??
Click to expand...

No, I aim to achieve the same thing every time which will allow buzz free playing at any action. Level frets, crowned, round ends, brought to 1500 grit. The only thing I do differently neck to neck is determine how much fallaway I have to add to get the frets level out the back from the heel on out.
 
Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

nexion218 said:
I might be straying outside the territory of my knowledge here, but the rest of the folks will surely correct me if I'm wrong, so here goes my 2 cents:

As the neck has a smaller radius and consequently bigger curvature, I'd image that this is what gets your G and B strings closer to the board and thus producing the effect you observe. If you align a curve with a 16" radius and one with a 15,6" radius, it's easy to see that as you move away from center (towards the edge of your fingerboard) the gap between the two becomes bigger. As you try to minimize the gap at the edges (=lower the action), you're not only moving the ends of the curve (=outside strings), but the whole of it (=all strings). This could result in comfortable action on the outside ( high and low E), but at the same time move the "inner strings" dangerously close to the frets. So far so good, but this should result in the D and G strings misbehaving... if it wasn't for the slope of the whole bridge! The action is usually higher on the bass side then the treble side, whish creates a slight slope and in my mind mind that could be the reason why the strings closest to the frets are G and B. Talk about a hyperactive imagination! :D

Also, to the rest of the gang: please be easy on me if I've managed to come up with utter nonsense! :)
Click to expand...

Actually a 16" radius is almost flat, old strats and teles and 7.25" radius necks. Also I think I understand what you are saying, but the Ibanez bridges, at least the MIJ ones with the Edge are radiused to match the fretboard.
 
Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

How worn are the string grooves in your bridge saddles? Could be that your g and b strings aren't making solid contact with the front edge of the string slot in your saddles until you hit the higher notes.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 
Re: Help with Clanky Frets / Fret Noise...

^ Yes, I've had the saddles create rattles before.
 
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