help with mixing......

ricc

ricc

New member
well, I'm supposed to be mixing our CD. We got done recording back in November and to be honest it has been a massive struggle.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=1138604

I'm not happy with the guitar sounds - especially mine. It's true I was using a sucky R8 through a sucky Marshall.... :banghead: - to me they just sound thin. But.....maybe I'm wrong and it sounds good.

It's a brief taste of a song. Not too much - looking for constructive criticism. If you don't like the style, I'm not interested.

thanks!

I'm meeting with a guy on Tues to talk about mixing. He is going to charge $25 an hour which most of my band mates are balking at......
 
Re: help with mixing......

i should add, there are no mastering tools em[ployed, the track is not normalized, no automation. just some eq on drums and bass, guitars have a high pass on, two tracks per guitarist (2 guitars) - panned left and right. the engineer recorded 2 sm57s on one speaker which i was wary of, but.....well, I'm kicking myself for not questioning him.
 
Re: help with mixing......

At the end of a long day on the computer 2.1 system the first thing that jumps at me is that the bottom end is a mess. Kick drum vs. bass guitar.

Not sure I like that drum reverb either... its really poking out and the snare isn't even doing what it should yet.

Guitars don't sound bad. Not quite as 'thick' as I'd expect/look to hear for sludge rock but honestly that seems like the best thing going right now...
 
Re: help with mixing......

funnily enough there is no reverb on the drums - well, rather, the reverb you hear is the room mic. i have two kick drum wavs going on. one is the head, the other is the sub - do you think i should lower the sub sound? would that help with the bass mess?
 
Re: help with mixing......

I was kinda wondering if that might be natural room... sounds a bit icky and out of place regardless.

The kick/bass relationship is probably 50-50... the tone of the bass in the intro doesn't seem all that 'well defined' if that makes any sense. If anything I'm hearing a hole where the bass would cross into the guitars... which of course will affect the guitars and then the drums.

I dig the big lows on the kick and they don't seem out of place compared to say Fu Manchu, Melvins, Wolfmother etc. but yeah, at the moment they're totally out of place with everything else.

Gotta figure out what belongs at the bottom... kick or bass.
 
Re: help with mixing......

I'm a hack so take this with a grain of salt-n-peppa:

- I like the bass sound actually; I just think it needs compressed to heck and back.

- why high pass guitars that are thin to begin with? they may even need a slight boost in the lower area (70-100 hz). have you tried a multiband compressor on them? sometimes even goofing with stock settings of a multiband compressor can really alter the sound of rhythms for the better.

- drums are a tough one for me since I'm used to drum machines and samples, but have you considered replacing the existing bass drum with one that is a bit more in-your-face, or perhaps blending a sampled one? I think in this case, a kick drum replacement would make a world of difference.
 
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Re: help with mixing......

I listened to this on some real speakers.....

I don't think you guitars sounds too thin, it sounds like Marshalls (and good, I have heard Marshalls done badly)....if you really wanted "thicker" and "beefier", that would be a different amp choice.

I reality, you guitar tone with thicken up a lot when you start EQ'ing a mastering mix. This mix sounds nearly raw, once you get the low end build up out and tighten up the punch of the kit, and attack of the bass...your guitars will be right at home.

Lots of low end should come out of the kick (or bring up the attack anywhere from 3K to 5K and suck some mids at around 230 to 280), compress...medium attack, fast release

Snare sounds good, just needs to come up a some and maybe a bit of compression to so it sits a little more forward in the mix

Bring cymbals down...the rest if the kit will sound bigger and more defined

Compress the F out the of the toms and bring down a bit in the mix (maybe some low end roll of also)..too much boom

Bass needs compression and the low end needs to be tailored. There is a lot of native low end in the instrument, you don't need as much as would think.

You have some very good raw material, and should be able to get great results from it.

If you want to keep a heavy, boomy mix, it can be done...it requires a lot of individual mid scoop on individual instruments in the right places to get the proper "boom" with definition.

Don't be afraid of crazy EQs or massive compression - let you ears decide. Make the mix do what you want the way you want, ignore purists and audiophiles when it comes to what is right. Compare with a commercially produced mix (not to sound like it, but simply to adjust your ears to basic balance.)

Some people think Terry Date used drum samples for a lot of Pantera recordings...he didn't, but he didn't follow the "rules" either because there really aren't any.
 
Re: help with mixing......

Binnerscot said:
If you want to keep a heavy, boomy mix, it can be done...it requires a lot of individual mid scoop on individual instruments in the right places to get the proper "boom" with definition.

Don't be afraid of crazy EQs or massive compression - let you ears decide. Make the mix do what you want the way you want,
Click to expand...


To me this isn't 'heavy and boomy' right now or even close to that.

Put it against something like QOTSA 'Little Sister' or my all time favorite "blow out 'yer speakers" record Fu's King of the Road... those are huge sounding records that explode out of speakers and IMO would the high water mark for something like Riccs band. Some of that size and power comes from mixing analog... tubes and transformers.

Either way, listening again with fresh ears I hear frequencies in the guitars that I'm not hearing in anything else... really high fizzy stuff like the 10kHz range where as the drums and especially cymbals are dark and veiled.
 
Re: help with mixing......

The following words caught my attention.

Binnerscot said:
I listened to this on some real speakers.
Click to expand...

Ricc, what are you using for monitors?

Many home computer and domestic "hi-fi" loudspeakers artificially boost the low frequencies to compensate for their undersized woofer drivers. This effect renders them unsuitable for critical listening.
 
Re: help with mixing......

Thanks for all the comments - I appreciate them greatly! I'll try and respond to points or elaborate on issues raised :-)
The speakers I'm using are m-audio BX5a deluxes - they are pretty tight in the bass department which is a bit of an issue as I feel like I overcompensate. So, I mix on those then transfer to ipod which I then plug into a nice Sony stereo. WAAAAY bassy....

Binnerscott - thanks for the kind words about the guitar sounds: I like them 75% I think - they just miss alittle thickness which brings up the point Dankstar brought up "why high pass guitars that are thin to begin with?" - very good point.

The bass guitar tone is something I have a hard time with as well. It's really...thin and uneven. I'll try the compression thing.

The source record that my bandmates were going with was The Sword's Warp Riders. I'm not overly fond of them myself - I find them slightly pedestrian. The guitar tones there are monstrous. Of course, as I remind my bandmates, they had slightly more options when they recorded and I'm damned sure they had more than 2 sm57s on their (multiple) cabs.....

Please keep the thoughts coming - it's helping a lot. I'm currently trying to work out how to drop drum samples in to my DAW.....
 
Re: help with mixing......

ok - remix coming up. this sounds really good on my monitors (so it probably sounds like doo doo in reality!!)
 
Re: help with mixing......

Sound better!

What kind of a mix are you shooting for?

Is there anything you are not happy with yet?
 
Re: help with mixing......

Well the "band" is fitting together better.

Still hear the fizzy high frequency difference in the guitars vs. drums...

Vocal is beyond buried.

Low end is still mud but at least its there...

Why are the hi-hat and ride cymbal louder then anything else?

See also frequency balance...

I don't think you need to mess with drum sample replacement... not unless you want to dig a major hole for yourself. Drum sounds were great...

Groove? Well it'd be nice to hear a whole tune rather then snippets...



edit - I just listened the first 15 seconds of the Swords Warp RIders off the 12-bit lo-fi utoob... and dude, you ain't even close that level of impact.
 
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Re: help with mixing......

sounds pretty cool to me. vocals are kinda buried, but I've heard lotsa stuff like that, if that's what you're going for.
 
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Re: help with mixing......

The balance overall is much better.

Do you have seperate tracks for the drum kit? An individual close mic for drum?

The bass track sounds like needs a little work yet, but I am not sure what you going for with its solo tone.
 
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