Possibility of 8 string with high A and Floyd Rose bridge

[Inflames626]

In my defense also, many of my former teachers at GIT with decades of experience don't like 8 strings--"too low."

If I'm recording, I can just use a bass guitar or multiple guitar parts for drone notes with each guitar getting its own register like they do in gypsy jazz.

This is why I see 8 string improvisation and the way Tosin Abasi plays especially as kind of its own genre, similar to how Les Claypool was in the 90s--minimal band accompaniment and a talented guy just going crazy. It's very impressive, but for me not very musical.

I'd rather just have a fuller ensemble with lots of parts over one guitarist trying to do everything. Easier to play and more musical with a band, IMO.

 

[El Dunco]

I’ll be dead by then. The “too low” djent thing was a fad anyway. It’s become too silly to take seriously with 9 strings with a low C#. You literally can’t hear the note. I think bands who actually record their instruments are and will continue to be seen as fresh and new sounding because of how homogenised and grating on the ears ez-bake mixes are becoming.

We still use E standard 80% of the time because if the riffs are heavy enough, it doesn’t need to be tuned down. I’ve even been asked what tuning certain songs are in and they’ve been shocked that it wasn’t downtuned. I think an evil tone plays a part too.

 

[Mincer]

Companies like Touch Guitars have proved that extended ranges can work, but usually, you have to develop a new style of playing. That's cool, though, because that's how new music gets made.

 

[Inflames626]

I’ll be dead by then. The “too low” djent thing was a fad anyway. It’s become too silly to take seriously with 9 strings with a low C#. You literally can’t hear the note. I think bands who actually record their instruments are and will continue to be seen as fresh and new sounding because of how homogenised and grating on the ears ez-bake mixes are becoming.

We still use E standard 80% of the time because if the riffs are heavy enough, it doesn’t need to be tuned down. I’ve even been asked what tuning certain songs are in and they’ve been shocked that it wasn’t downtuned. I think an evil tone plays a part too.

Plus playing in standard on 25.5" guitars even with 10s greatly improves hand strength. Most guys nowadays probably have terrible vibrato (me included) when playing.

One of my warm ups is to start with 8th notes and do a full step bend at various places on the neck--bottom of the bend on the 1 and top on the and. Then do it at 16ths, and so on, upping tempo as you go.

Same principle with hammer/pulls, trills, and legato (clean pull offs with a downward movement at fast tempos have always been one of my weaknesses).

After getting hand strength in standard tuning, you feel amazing on a 24.75" guitar tuned to B standard with 12s.

And, tbh, I think a lot of amazing players with lots of hand strength, Zakk Wylde included, stay with 24.75" over 25.5" just because of comfort.

That's also a reason I stick with 25.5" for 7 strings. A longer scale may be fine for lower tuned strings but if the guitar isn't multi-scale I don't want to be fighting more tension than standard tuning on the higher strings.

 

[El Dunco]

Plus playing in standard on 25.5" guitars even with 10s greatly improves hand strength. Most guys nowadays probably have terrible vibrato (me included) when playing.

One of my warm ups is to start with 8th notes and do a full step bend at various places on the neck--bottom of the bend on the 1 and top on the and. Then do it at 16ths, and so on, upping tempo as you go.

Same principle with hammer/pulls, trills, and legato (clean pull offs with a downward movement at fast tempos have always been one of my weaknesses).

After getting hand strength in standard tuning, you feel amazing on a 24.75" guitar tuned to B standard with 12s.

And, tbh, I think a lot of amazing players with lots of hand strength, Zakk Wylde included, stay with 24.75" over 25.5" just because of comfort.

That's also a reason I stick with 25.5" for 7 strings. A longer scale may be fine for lower tuned strings but if the guitar isn't multi-scale I don't want to be fighting more tension than standard tuning on the higher strings.

All mine are 25.5” (even my 7 strings but I don’t get any flop with the right gauges) except my Dean 1984 USA V, My Ibanez LP and my Washburn BT-4QL

 

[Inflames626]

I have a rare Peavey Rotor (Explorer type guitar with a Floyd) that is 24.75" with 12 gauge strings tuned to B standard. I like how comfortable it is to play but am considering raising its tuning.

I also have a Charvel Desolation Floyded Les Paul copy that is 25.5" and in B standard. It handles that tuning much better.

Overall I prefer 25.5", but if I am doing a lot of blues and bending I admit the shorter scale length is appreciated.

 

[Inflames626]

Also, I was mistaken. Rusty used B E A D G B E A tuning in the video. I'd still prefer drop A and also you'd get 3 As as well as a low A against a B, a 9th, always a cool interval in metal. His point about being able to play everything in one position instead of shifting up so much of the neck is one that I think is well taken even though it seems there's been a resurgence in players doing legato up and down the neck versus across strings.

Imagine what Shawn Lane could have done with an 8 string...

Also, here is a video tuned up an octave. Bernth does pretty cool stuff although he's been kind of click-baity recently to promote his clinics. Still, he gets some very cool ideas out of a higher tuning using a free plugin.

Now imagine we can do all this on one guitar going down to drop A1, Floyd Rosed for dive bombing and squealing on pull ups. And we can keep our vibrato and blues bends. We just have to figure out a way to invent it. But we have to want to invent it first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT7uuYk8bp4

My point: going higher is just as musical, if not more so, than going lower. Besides technical limitations, going higher is just more challenging for novice and intermediate players to use well than going lower, so going higher isn't as popular.

 

[Mincer]

Couldn't you have essentially the same range on a 6 string if tuned in 5ths?

 

[Inflames626]

Couldn't you have essentially the same range on a 6 string if tuned in 5ths?

I have that as E B F# C# G# D# if you mean from standard tuning. From drop A I have it as A E B F# C# G# (I think more easily in sharps than flats for some reason).

It's pretty close, although by the 2nd string in standard tuning it would be close to the A break point. In drop A it could be done (and you'd get the cool ability to do a power chord on every pair of strings).

My drawback here would be rethinking all my shapes on the interior strings.

Also on an 8 if you're an alternate picker you get that cool 8/2=4 thing which is nice in 4/4 for alternate picking licks. Obviously you can do the same on a 6 string but this would be more like 3/4.

This is why I tend to prefer drop tunings on 7 strings. That extra string throws off evenly divisible picking runs, so I prefer to just use it as an easy way to chunk around the neck, whereas when you try drop tuning on a 6 you lose that high string.

Other thing for playing heavy riffs I really dislike drop tuning, though, because it makes your hand shift positions an additional two frets.

I'm sure I'm probably overlooking something but my guitar isn't in my lap and my attachment to my Floyd Rose generally means I don't experiment with alternate tunings as much as many players. I have to use a special tuning enough to justify setting up a Floyded guitar for it and that's usually just standard tuning descending from E standard down to A standard in half steps with a few 7 strings rounding out B/Bb/A. I use a fixed bridge BC Rich Outlaw 7 for this rhythmically then move to a couple of Floyded Jackson Soloists for those tunings with a Floyd for melodic parts.

SD plug--I look forward to trying the Dino Cazares signature 7 string pickup as long as it remains available. With everyone shifting endorsements recently I'm not sure if models will be discontinued, rebranded, or kept the same.

 

[Mincer]

I think the point is essentially to toss all of the shapes and patterns you are used to. Sure, you'd have to re-learn songs, but your new stuff wouldn't be as pattern-based as an older tuning. You'd be creating truly new music, I'd guess.

 

[Inflames626]

Something like this is what I was thinking of for a high A and Floyd, except the Floyd would be a 7 string Floyd with a short scale length high A as a fixed bridge component. Basically the reverse of this (15 string?) Baroque lute based on an oud.

All the drone notes on wound strings are something that could just be done by a bass guitar, which is why I really don't understand why many of these instruments exist unless all the strings are being constantly used via sweeps, arpeggios, tapping, etc. When he's playing the melodies on the two course upper set of strings (except for the two highest which appear to be singles) so much of the instrument's potential seems to be wasted because the human hand can't handle that many strings.

Meanwhile the piano/keyboard isn't wasted because you can do such wide intervals on it, whereas a stringed instrument still boxes you in to either a fixed number of frets or crossing strings. Imagine trying to play one of the lower wound strings and higher unwound strings more than 3 frets apart on that instrument. Impossible. But not so with a keyboard.

https://youtu.be/8E-JMh1Fo3k

I can see the need for this instrument in a live setting if you are the only musician. But I would still prefer a small ensemble similar to Vivaldi's string arrangements over some kind of huge multi stringed instrument trying to do everything poorly.

Many independent players/lines will always be better than a single player with many strings, IMO. It's probably only in gypsy jazz where it seems like there's one guitar player playing two fully independent parts. That's also why it's such a challenging genre to play.

I think it's sort of sad that luthiers 500 years ago were taking more creative chances than we are now. Then again, we're doing with software what they had to do by altering the timbre and nature of the instrument.

 

[Inflames626]

This limitations of each instrument also explain why I think the future of music will be assembling samples on computers and not playing actual instruments. No huge learning curve. No boring practicing. Just putting the notes you want from the instruments you want on the staff how you want.

 

[Mincer]

This limitations of each instrument also explain why I think the future of music will be assembling samples on computers and not playing actual instruments. No huge learning curve. No boring practicing. Just putting the notes you want from the instruments you want on the staff how you want.

This has been happening for years. Music fans don't care where the music comes from. Many 'live' performances aren't really live, and the audience doesn't care for the most part.

 

[nienturi]

i dont know if they help but Hantug does 8 stringed floyds, non-locking trems and trems for headless guitars.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CMvS1HYMvH6/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BOFAFS9hx0U/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CITrGEHnpGS/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Ckl1k-PuQbD/

 

[Inflames626]

Thank you, nienturi , for helping me try something different.